Tape Op Message Board

Recording Techniques :: RE: First Full year as a full-time recording engineer, a report.

MoreSpaceEcho — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:45:31 GMT

Author: MoreSpaceEcho
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:45 am (GMT -4)

hhhhhmmmm you make a compelling offer, because i bet you have a comfy couch and are a really good cook, but i've already put up like 100 sheets of rock, green glue is sticky as shit, and i've no money for a plane ticket. or anything else for that matter.

*eats lint*

Recording Techniques :: RE: Re-thinking signal path

@�,*��&� — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:40:06 GMT

Author: @�,*��&�
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:40 am (GMT -4)

Z-Plane wrote:

@�,*��&� wrote:

I'm 100% sure T-Bone would not do the record if he could not work analog.

Respect to T-Bone, but the point I'm making is that I think you're mistaken in the idea that 44.1/48k is anywhere near as pivotal as you suggest. Lets say I sneaked a RADAR into all the original sessions and paid the tape op to keep some dummy analog running. I wager you would find this version 99% as appealing, and would certainly not be hearing chronic degragation anywhere.

I'm not so sure. The believability of the high-frequency content of a recording is absolutely essential to it's ability to convince. Have you heard any of the HDAD 24-bit, 192 khz discs coming out? They sound amazing. They make CDs sound like .mp3s by comparison. The Sam Phillips disc is so much closer to that sound because the conversion step was done once at the time the analog master was committed into the digital domain. Highly unlikely there was ANY digital eq in the mastering process. Everything was analog. Made at a time when people actually gave a shit what converters sounded like.

Today we have the slippery slope of very average gear at the hands of 'less-than-professionals' and we are mired in 'non-critical' listening.

I say this, "DO BETTER."

This disc has been a wake-up call for me.
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Computer World :: RE: Switch from Vegas to Sonar (?) what do you think(?)

losthighway — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:37:54 GMT

Author: losthighway
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:37 am (GMT -4)

Here could be the selling point for me:

Do you know how to set it up so it looks like audio tracks daw style on 2/3 of the screen and then buses, and the master bus on the other 1/3 so that it looks like a bunch of faders on a mixing board?

I've just got this groove set with Vegas where I can see almost everything, a little scrolling through the tracks, but then at the bottom I have meters, and buses, which I can see all the time without needing to open some other window, or select a new view.
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Computer World :: RE: Switch from Vegas to Sonar (?) what do you think(?)

calaverasgrandes — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:30:42 GMT

Author: calaverasgrandes
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:30 am (GMT -4)

Sonar has its plusses and minuses. There are a couple things that really annoy me about it. Like how badly it crashes on the rare occasions it crashes.
Ot how they had this cool dialogue for beat mapping material than totally trashed that when they added audiosnap.

I also find some of the graphics kind of busy. But you get a lot for what you pay and its an audio platform primarily!
What I do is go into the preferences and turn all the cartoony colors down, way down. I amke everything black or grey. I make one or two thing red or green.
It's is great for urban/R&B/industrial type production. If you are running midi and audio together. If not you can probably do better with one of the audio only solutions out there.
Me I am learning Logic again and getting back on a mac. No reason just because.
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Use Your Ears: Listen to My Stuff :: RE: I'm writing and recording a new song every week for a year..

project52 — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:29:34 GMT

Author: project52
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:29 am (GMT -4)

Week 22 is up and sounds to me a little bit like The Cars. Stop on by and enjoy the ride (sorry, couldn't resist).
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Computer World :: RE: Switch from Vegas to Sonar (?) what do you think(?)

losthighway — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:24:50 GMT

Author: losthighway
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:24 am (GMT -4)

Just an interesting and unexpected update:

After months upgrading preamps and compressors I am finally ready to look into upgrading my computer and software. To warm myself up to the whole issue I downloaded a copy of Sonar. I gotta say (maybe after almost a decade I have Vegas eyes) Sonar is ugly! The screen just looks brutal. I messed around and was able to make sense of half of my normal functions after an hour of struggle, but it just has way too much on there.

So I gave myself a shot with the Vegas 9 demo. Looks nice once you close all the video stuff. And you can finally slide the audio tracks to whatever increment you want and fix the phase relationship between two tracks. I can totally deal with printing effects before a mix down and blending stuff, or just time aligning and then muting the original track.

I liked the sound of 64-bit mix engine, but I'm thinking it's not worth a migraine.
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Recording Techniques :: RE: Where are your Limitations?

toaster3000 — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:21:14 GMT

Author: toaster3000
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:21 am (GMT -4)

hmmm... lots of tracks.

i remember roli mossimann telling me that some of the stuff on 'mind bomb' by The The was 2 32track mitsubishi digital machines locked with a 24tk analog machine chasing... jonny marr would take 2" slave reels home and fill them up with guitar stuff and then roli would comp the good shit back onto the dash machines... i think it was mixed with the drums coming off the analog machine? i'll have to ask him next nerve tour...

it's alot of tracks, but then again, i think much that was just for lots of different timbres in different sections... the same way these days you might track a section with a different setup and have it on different tracks in the daw, but coming out the same channels...

my limitations are time in the studio with bands due to their budgets, and the number of years under my belt as a producer/engineer... and those limitations are less of a concern with every step i make in my career.

john
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People Skills :: Dublin studios?

blackdiscoball — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:18:07 GMT

Author: blackdiscoball
Subject: Dublin studios?
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:18 am (GMT -4)

Does anyone know or run a studio in dublin ireland? Ill be headed over the pond this weekend and would love to check out a studio or two in Ireland while I'm there.
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Recording Techniques :: RE: Where are your Limitations?

Gentleman Jim — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:36:14 GMT

Author: Gentleman Jim
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:36 pm (GMT -4)

Last night during the Superbowl half time show, my father-in-law shocked everyone by insisting he had never heard any of the songs The Who included in that medley. From memory I recall Pinball Wizard, Baba O'Reilly, Who Are You, and Won't Get Fooled Again. There may have been one or two others.

He's 65. Not a rocker by any stretch whatsoever, but even my mother-in-law didn't believe him at first. They've been married since about 1968.

Recording Techniques :: RE: Recording everything with one mic - slight twist

jgimbel — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:12:03 GMT

Author: jgimbel
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:12 pm (GMT -4)

I remember a thread on here when we were talking about doing this with a stereo pair (where I'm sure Mark Hollis was mentioned), with setting up a stereo pair and making your record around that. I LOVE the idea, and the only thing that's prevented me from trying it for the record I'm working on now is the fact that my room isn't too great all around, enough to place everything as I'd want it. I've got a few spots that sound good, and I just try to..record things where they sound good. If you want to do a record by moving all around, then if you have spots that don't sound good in general (not treated well for example) then you're pretty much limiting that in your mix, making it a hole that will exist in the final tracks, and the album as a whole. My space is long and skinnyish. What's your space like? I think what you're talking about sounds like a great way to hone in on the sounds like you're saying, and be able to pay attention to what you're really hearing.

I'm going to get geeky here, but this is something I learned in an information design course. This credit goes to Edward Tufte who is a famous information designer (and husband of the teacher of my course), who basically takes everything you know and hate about charts and boring stuff like that, and makes it awesome. "Small multiples" is a type of chart where you show the same thing a bunch of times in a grid or row, with only the information changing. For example you show the shape of the human brain, with a certain part of the brain highlighted in each image. This way you become accustomed visually to the shape of the brain, and you can pay attention much more closely to the actual information that's changing, therefore the viewer can get a lot more information versus if there was an image of the brain with the highlighted parts overlapping, for example.

Point being, by having the mic in one spot for all your different sound, you know the characteristics of that spot in the room and can tune that out, really focusing more on the sound of the instrument itself, the performance, etc. So it's a great way to work and would be a great way to rule out the factor of changing parts of the room as something you're paying attention to. Alright I'm done, sorry about that.

Recording Techniques :: RE: First Full year as a full-time recording engineer, a report.

trodden — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:11:47 GMT

Author: trodden
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:11 pm (GMT -4)

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:

InvalidInk wrote:

Lose your job and think your fucked, then you decide to take a chance and do something you love and it usually works out for the best! !

i'm hoping this is true! i lost my part time day gig in november...rather than look for another crappy job i decided to just use the time to build a nice new studio. and doing it all yourself takes forever, i can't imagine how i'd have gotten anything done if i still had the day job...

ahahahah yep.. i've been in this building since November... and I' just now working on my iso booth... FUCK! but i guess we did have a lot of work to do to make it liveable FIRST, and now the studio aspect of it.

You come here. You sleep on my couch, You help me with heavy heavy sheet rock and toooobs of green glue. I feed you. You pay for own plane ticket though... sheetrock, green glue, rockwool, and cableing gonna make me BROKE. never willl have that distressor/drawmer/m160/ass to ass/SWORN TO THE DARk.
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Recording Techniques :: RE: Re-thinking signal path

Z-Plane — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:04:08 GMT

Author: Z-Plane
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:04 pm (GMT -4)

@�,*��&� wrote:

I'm 100% sure T-Bone would not do the record if he could not work analog.

Gear Talk :: aftermarket pencil erasers

ubertar — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:01:25 GMT

Author: ubertar
Subject: aftermarket pencil erasers
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:01 pm (GMT -4)

You know, the kind that you stick on the back end of the pencil? Turns out they fit well on the tip of a drumstick. What's cool about that is you can play a hand drum with sticks without damaging it. I've set up a drum set made up of different hand drums, plus a snare, a hi-hat and another cymbal. I use a kpanlogo drum from Ghana as the kick drum, with a pedal, and have other drums set up in stands that I made: a doumbek, a djembe, a tabla (just the tabla, not the bayan) and a conga. Up until now, I've been playing them by hand, but using sticks opens up other possibilities. I know, I could've just gotten some rubber mallets, but I had the sticks and thought of putting the erasers on them, and had to try it. It works, and it's cheap, and not permanent unless you glue them on, so give it a shot...

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If you want a mic, please post your request in the $35 ribbon mic thread, not in a PM. Thanks!*
*I'm temporarily holding off on new orders, please stay tuned...

People Skills :: RE: What are you working on this week: 1/31 - 2/6

Jon Nolan — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:59:39 GMT

Author: Jon Nolan
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:59 pm (GMT -4)

sad iron wrote:

I finished mixing my own record. Been working on this thing for 6 years. Not these recording, but the project itself. Hard to believe I'm don't/ I'll probably tinker a little bit more, up until the moment I send it out to be mastered.

print that shit jason!

ps - I must try and take my own advice.
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I'm blogging on my site about making my RPM Challenge record if you care to waste some time reading!

Recording Techniques :: RE: Re-thinking signal path

Jon Nolan — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:52:31 GMT

Author: Jon Nolan
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:52 pm (GMT -4)

noeqplease wrote:

A lot of this is the arrangement and the production.........

......Remember, the SILENCE is just an important a part of a recording than the sounds of that recording. People just do not seem to use Silence as part of their arsenal of tools anymore. It's like our modern times have created recordings that are very BUSY, like our lives, but meaningless, like a lot of people's lives too. A reflection of the times we live in.........

yes nick! truth.

EDIT: so, i read thru the rest of this thread *after* responding with the above sentiment. im psyched that lots of others found this point to be important as well.
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Computer World :: RE: PCI-X asio interface recommendations

jdgalusha — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:48:45 GMT

Author: jdgalusha
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:48 pm (GMT -4)

Kingmetal-

Right on. Thank you very much. My machine has firewire 800, so as the article reads, both in theory and reality, USB2 is pointless. A dedicated card would still be best I'm sure, but I'll not run into any issues with bottlenecking etc, or if I do, I'll have a whole new setup by then. If you have any insight into PCI port clarification I'd love to hear it. I posted earlier:

I must have acquired an oddball setup, because my Delta PCI card physically does not match up with these expansion slots, and I know they are not "express" slots. I do see that there is a similar slot configuration between the PCI-X and the PCI, but if I tried to plug the 1010 card into these slots, it would end up being backwards with the connections facing the inside of the computer.

G4 PCI: Long slot/small slot/medium slot

G5 (I think has...) PCI-X: small slot/long slot/ medium slot

As far as these slot configurations go, I appologize for their lack of technical specificity...yet I ask, do they make sense? When I search pictures of PCI vs. PCI-X vs. PCI e (express) I come to the conclusion that they are all physically different, and that PCI will not fit into PCI-X, yet I hear different, and I've seen contracdicing pictures. Any light?

THANKS
j

Computer World :: RE: Recommend Plug-ins for Pro Tools

junkshop — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:38:12 GMT

Author: junkshop
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:38 pm (GMT -4)

You can't go wrong with the Massey plug-ins. They're free to demo. I love the mastering limiter, compressor and the tape delay.
_________________
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fossiltooth wrote:

The few people who are able to create genuinely new sounds are often insane-psycho-geniuses and the mentally retarded.

Recording Techniques :: RE: re-amping entire mix

Theo_Karon — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:35:54 GMT

Author: Theo_Karon
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:35 pm (GMT -4)

Contact mics are some of the best things, if you look at things in general. One of these days I'm going to record something only using contact mic'd drums and cymbals instead of microphones.

Edit: I mean, instead of 'normal' microphones.

Another edit: also get ready to do some crazy extreme EQ, way way way crazier than you'd probably ever use normally, since the mics themselves (especially piezo discs) tend to be so nonlinear. I sometimes use a phono preamp for this; the RIAA eq curve is just about exactly right most of the time, and will give you a lot more wiggle room later on if, for instance, you want to bring out a bunch of low end or get a darker sound.

Gear Talk :: RE: let's talk spring reverbs

rty5150 — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:34:54 GMT

Author: rty5150
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:34 pm (GMT -4)

just did a test with my reverb again. i did have to crank the shit out of my preamp to get good signal out of the accutronics ran straight. i did however have some radio design labs preamps for a shelved PZM project and this worked out great. i ran it on the output of the tank, but i am wondering what it would sound like with more level on the way in. i don't want to damage it, though. it seems to be working out just fine currently. i will be using the same preamp rig for my plate reverb project coming up soon.

http://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=64

i will attempt to build a passive blend circuit for both as well.

rich

Computer World :: RE: A Quick Reason Question

joel hamilton — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:25:49 GMT

Author: joel hamilton
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:25 pm (GMT -4)

I forget how I got around this beyond having the sound retrig at the whole note...
I cant remember, but it was something like putting an automation breakpoint for a controller that wasnt doing anything... on every single 1/8 note... or something like that... like a velocity change that was only like 1 step or something, and it forced the ON message again, so the MIDI would fire at the 16th note... because you can randomize the velocity and set the percentage, you can just set it to randomize like only 1 or 2 steps ( 0 - 127 ) ....

Sorry, I wish I could remember WTF I did to get around this , but I cant right now.
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Buy/Sell/Trade :: RE: FS: Auralex Metrofusor Diffusors w/ Auralex foam backing

BusyBoxSt7 — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:23:46 GMT

Author: BusyBoxSt7
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:23 pm (GMT -4)

leedy:
what all are you doing in the room? playing? tracking? mixing? ... bass traps aren't going to affect perceived loudness much (except if they're fairly large and also absorb highs/mids, which Lenrds aren't that big)... If mixing or mastering in the room, I'd suggest replacing the Lenrds w/ somethings beefier like superchunks... Do you have hard or soft floors? If you're recording, you probably want to do a cloud over the kit (especially if low ceiling) and if your floors are carpet, consider "hardening" them whether that's putting a sheet of plywood under you or buy a sheet of thin masonite (MDF, whatever you call it) and cut it up in 1' squares and scatter them around the floor... I'd also consider reflections at ear level (and cymbal level) on the walls, just don't kill the room too much (after some absorption, then to the diffusion to break up the echoes).
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Computer World :: RE: Recommend Plug-ins for Pro Tools

@�,*��&� — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:22:06 GMT

Author: @�,*��&�
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:22 pm (GMT -4)

roseylarose wrote:

@�,*��&� wrote:

Get the VST to RTAS wrapper from FXpansion. One $99 purchase will afford you hundreds (600+) plugins that are available for free or as shareware online. It is the single most important plugin purchase you can make.

When you say free or as shareware online... I'm new to that world - could you point me to a site or two? (I'm on a mac if that makes any difference)

thanks for the help

Use google my friend- with both hands.
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Gear Talk :: RE: Clocking Question

joel hamilton — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:20:03 GMT

Author: joel hamilton
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:20 pm (GMT -4)

kingmetal wrote:

But, to reiterate my original question: are both legs of a clock source necessary in a situation where a device is passing digital input and output through a specific interface, or do you only need one leg of a clock-path in all cases?

It depends on what you mean by "clock path" really... like a BNC cable from a clock to a device is a complete "clock path"... there is no "send and return" type situation in most cases that I have ever seen , besides the "loop sync" situation in PTHD, or with the optical loop using ADATs.... but in each case it is device specific, so i dont know how to answer the original question beyond the empirical variable reducing process I originally answered with.
Good luck!
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Computer World :: RE: New desktop machine advice

mrc — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:18:05 GMT

Author: mrc
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:18 pm (GMT -4)

I'm a long way from an expert, but I'm currently running an Amd XII 550 (which is the 955 with 2 cores disabled) It is a low wattage chip, and I can easily run it @ 3.4 ghz on the factory cooler/fan. There are a couple of Gigabyte boards that will usually unlock this chip, but I'm running an Asus M4N72-E so I can run a TC Powercore with the UAD's. Powercores seem to have an aversion to most amd multicore chipsets. You can find the giga boards on the net. This 550 is a real cheap way to run a quad core system, if you have the right boards, but just as an X2 @ 3400, it seems pretty strong with 4 gigs of 1066 ram. YMMV

Recording Techniques :: RE: Quick question regarding signal path for de-essing

Corey Y — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:02:43 GMT

Author: Corey Y
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:02 pm (GMT -4)

My words (and junkshop's) are coming back to haunt me. My gear is apparently just not up to the task of de-essing via the sidechain technique. I already knew I needed a good parametric EQ that could notch (apart from this application), just can't seem to get it dialed right to be effective.

Well, I'm not automating, since I already have a ton of automation set on the track and my automation is fussy as hell. So I'm going to cut and paste all the esses to a separate track and adjust level and eq to taste. Tedious as hell, but I've painted myself in a corner. My mantra is usually "fix it in the room", so I've never had to worry about this before, but I got sloppy.

Did I mention this was one of those "oh hey, while we're hear, let's record this track as well!" songs? I've put at least 4 times as many hours into mixing this song as everything else on the album.