Advice For Newbie - How to High Pass Filter/EQ

[Wolfman Sack]

Hi


After cutting tracks, I've been reading about how it's a good idea to use a high pass filter on each instrument to cut out frequencies that compete with other instruments - like running one on a guitar track so it doesn't mud up when combined with the bass.

I get the idea, but I have a few questions - I'm a total newb, so sorry if they are obvious:

1) Where can I find the frequency ranges for instruments so I know what is competing with what? How do I know what frequencies are "bad" for drums, for guitar, etc? Can someone be kind enough to list them here, or is there a good book you can recommend that would help? A website?

2) I have the Waves Gold set of plugins for Cubase so I have a hi pass filter in there, but I have no idea how to use it. How would you set something like that so you can filter out the offending frequencies, if anyone is familiar with that set of plugins?

3) If I record myself at home but plan on taking the tracks elsewhere to be mixed by someone else, is it a bad idea to carve out the EQ for each track before submitting it for mixing? Is that better left for the final mixing process i.e. would a mixer prefer that the tracks are muddy and left untouched or is it something he would do anyway - meaning, is it as standard as removing crackles and pops or is it more of an artistic decision?

I know this is an obvious question, so I apologize for my ignorance in advance. Any books you could recommend, websites, etc would be very much appreciated.

WS

[I'm Painting Again]

personally I dont work with EQ too much..but I can see how it would be awesome and work just as well as any other method..

what I do is get the best "EQ" for everything from the mic placement..just keep moving them around till all the elements sound the way I want..this trickles down so when I feel I might need to use an EQ it's that much more "right" from the onset..

Instruments will have a general range of frequencies they produce but to say you can just hi pass and low pass their general ranges is kind of right and kind of wrong..in reality everything that makes a sound goes up and down in frequecy to infinity sometimes those "out of range" portions of the sound interact with the "in range" portions in significant ways..on the other hand it might very well work wonders to lo pass the bottom of the guitar to make room for the bass for example..it comes down to what you hear is best as your using your EQ..hi and low pass will have a gain level that you can bring up or down and a frequecy point where it rolls off along with a slope that dictates the way it rolls off..those are the basic three controls of these types of filter/EQ's..you tweak those controls for the best sound that works for what your doing..basically..you can get more of feel by opeining up your software or patching in your hardware and trying it out..

it might be a good practice if you taking it to someone else to mix to not do so much eq since its much harder to add anything you take away in that process..its kind of like a haircut in that way..you can chop off as much as you want..but if you go too close you might look messed up..so be cautious..

[Wolfman Sack]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the reply.

Maybe it was just the particular engineer friends I was talking with that gave me the impression that it was a standard type of thing - guitars belong in this range, bass in this range, drums in this one - so run them all through the EQ and get rid of anything that strays from that set instrument range. Like they would do that for every song without taking the song into account.

From your reply I see it isn't as cut and dry as that.....

I figured I'd record a "dummy" song with bass, drums, and guitars and practice using a filter to hear what it sounds like, before I botch up one of my actual songs.

[thethingwiththestuff]

i usually hate to just list numbers in threads like this, but there are certain frequencies you should become acquainted with.

all notes have a fundamental tone, like concert A=440Hz (that buzz on your tuner.) they also contain overtones or harmonics at lower amplitudes (volume) than the fundamental. the organization of these harmonics is what distinguishes A on a piano from A on a guitar - same fundamental, different harmonic overtones.

the low E on a guitar is 84Hz. the low E on a bass is 42Hz, but you may hear more overtone than fundamental on many basses.

the human hearing range's extremes are 20Hz to 20kHz, and we are most sensitive to "mid range frequencies" from maybe 250Hz- 2kHz (i'm not being exact). the human voice falls in this mid range, where the fundamental of a grown male might be around 300Hz, and the "S" sounds might be at 3k.

there's a really good graphic of a piano and symphonic instrument ranges laid out over it. i'll look for it....

[thethingwiththestuff]

i dont think this is the exact one i was look for but, check this out:

http://motif.falldowngoboom.org/motifut ... ranges.jpg

[Wolfman Sack]

That's helpful, thanks!

So in your experience, and in other Tape Oppers - does using EQ and high/low pass filters to "carve out" space for each instrument make a significant difference in the clarity of your mix? is that standard practice?

I understand the concept of trying to nail the sound at the source instead of fixing it with EQ, but in this case wouldn't you be using the EQ for a different purpose - not fixing a poorly recorded sound, but helping to place it in the mix?

Or would using specific microphones that "hear" in certain frequency ranges help to make them sit in the right place and lessen the need for filters and EQ?

I'm just trying to think of how to put this into practice. Maybe list out the frequency ranges of the microphones I own, then make a chart to reference the specific frequencies that voice and specific instruments inhabit - and try to pair them up?

If it helps, the microphones I currently own are:

Blue Baby Bottle
Shure SM57
Rode NT3
Shure SM81
AKG C3000


Thanks again for all the advice.....

WS

[I'm Painting Again]

I think carving out with Eq definitely can work to clarify a mix..but not in every case..I'm sure the tool in the wrongs hands can make the opposite true instead..make it more muddy or whatever..I don't think there are any standard practices..but I think most people use Eq devices either at tracking or mixing stages..Its also common at the mastering stage..

using gain/amplification, Eq, Compression, mic placement, mic selection, preamp selection, effects, recording format, the room, pretty much everything plays a part in how the tracks mix together in the end..

I suggest just trying out your mics and preamps and using the gain on the pre and the selection and placement of the mic only on some tracks and experience the differences that you get..ask your self what you want to hear and keep changing it up till you get it out of the speakers..then when you get the hang of that move on to the compression and effects and stuff..that seemed like the most logical way to me and thats what I have been doing..

certainly you dont need eq or any of these special devices to make a great recording..it can be done with the bare minimum..I feel when you get good with the minimum those skills trickle down the line when you move onto using other more sophisticated tools..learn to crawl before you walk..that sort of thing..we can only pray to fly..

every piece of gear imparts its own thing on the signal..even just the amplifier stages..for example many use compressors with the compressor functions set to not do anything just because the amplification circut has a tendancy to make say guitars sit up in front or vocals sound more creamy or watever..there are a a zillion permutations that can occur..its up to the user to figure out what does what and use those differences by creatively contrasting them to make the final "sound painting"

we can rarely put any of this to science because we all hear things differently..hearing is a perceptual phenomenon..all of our monitoring systems lie..and IMO when it comes down to it..it's just about using your ears and figuring out how to make it sound like you want..simple as that..for the longest time I didn't know what I was doing or why my recordings didn't sound the way my favorite records did..with practice I'm getting closer..

[Daylight]

I TOTALLY agree with what all of these kind folks have said regarding Microphone choice and placement as a precursor to the need for any equalization when you are mixing.

The end goal of any recording session is to get the sounds down so that all of the instruments get along with one another. If you are involved with a project from the onset, this type of vision is a bit easier to realize, but often people come into projects late in the game, or the songs take a new unexpected direction as the recording progresses and the rules change.

E.Q. is wonderful and necessary aspect of mixing no matter how judiciously the original tracks were recorded. The main thing to remember is that it is better to cut out certain frequencies around favorable frequencies.

If a track sounds wrong and needs to be fixed in some way, Cut before you Boost because boosting causes phase shifts. Use narrow Q when Cutting because you are usually trying to get rid of one specific offending frequency without affecting the adjacent frequencies.

Use wide Q when Boosting because increasing the frequencies adjacent to the one you are primarily interested in, keeps the E.Q. alterations from seeming too dramatic.

Set the boost/cut control to around 8 to 10 dB and then sweep through the frequencies until you find the necessary frequency to boost or cut. If you are cutting - narrow the Q and continue sweeping until you find the offending frequency. If you are boosting - use a narrow Q to find the frequency you wish to enhance and then widen the Q to include some of the adjacent frequencies.

In order for everything to fit together properly, try to set up your mix so that no two equalizers are boosting exactly the same frequency. Move the boost a little higher or lower if they are.

If you are doubling tracks using the same instruments and they seem to be competing with one another or if you have two instruments that share common frequencies that seem to be competing with one another, cut the exact frequency on one that you boost on the other.

With all of that said, here is a little cheat sheet I put together a long time ago from lots of different places:

Kick Drum
Cut
400-600 Hz ? Cut if Floppy or Hollow sounding
80 Hz and Below ? Cut if Boomy Sounding
250 ? 800 Hz ? Sweep Parametric in This Area to Identify Muddy Areas to Clean up. Usually it Occurs around 250 or 300 Hz

Boost
2.5-7 KHz - To Add Slap
30-90 Hz - To Add Bottom
100 ? 250 Hz ? Adds Roundness to Sound


Snare
Cut
1 KHz ? Problem Frequency

Boost
2 KHz and Above ? To add Crisp Quality
6 ? 8 KHz Adds Presence
8 ? 10 KHz - To Add Snap
60 ? 120 Hz Adds Balls
900 Hz - To Add ?Boing?
100-480 Hz ? To Add Fullness
60 - 80 Hz ? To Add Depth

Toms
Cut
300 Hz ? if Boomy
600 Hz to 1 KHz ? To Decrease Boxy sound

Boost
2-5 KHz - To Add Slap
1K to 2K ? To Accentuate the Tuning of the Toms and Tone
80-200 Hz To Add Bottom End
200 ? 250 Hz ? To Add Depth

Hi Hat
Cut
1 KHz ? Problem Frequency
250 ? 800 Hz - Sweep Parametric in This Area to Identify Muddy Areas to Clean up. Usually it Occurs around 250 or 300 Hz

Boost
1 ? 6 KHz and Above ? To Add Sparkle
3 KHz for Brightness without being too shrill

Cymbals
Cut
1 KHz ? Problem Frequency
250 ?800 Hz - Sweep Parametric in This Area to Identify Muddy Areas to Clean up. Usually it Occurs around 250 or 300 Hz
200 Hz ? Cut to Decrease Gong Sound
200 Hz ? Cut to Clean Up Microphone Bleed and Decrease Phase Cancellation Issues


Boost
5 KHz and Above Adds Sparkle
7.5 ? 10 KHz ? To add Shimmer
3 KHz for Brightness without being too shrill (Remember that 3 KHz is Your Primary vocal Boost Point though)


Electric Bass Guitar
Cut
1KHz ? To Thin
125 Hz ? If Boomy
300 Hz if Muddy

Boost
600 Hz ? To Add Snarl
400 Hz ? To Add Clarity to Bass Lines on Small Speakers or at Lower Volumes
800 Hz to 1 KHz to add Beefiness to Smaller Speakers
60 Hz for More Body
40 to 100 Hz for Bottom end
3 KHz for Edge ? (This May Conflict with vocals)
6-8 KHz adds Presence
1K to 2KHz ? To Add Clarity
2.5 to 6KHz - To Add More Slap and Pluck

String Bass
Cut
600 Hz ? To Add Hollowness
200 Hz ? To Decrease Boomy Quality

Boost
2-5 KHz ? To Increase Slap
125 and Below ? To Add Bottom

Electric Guitar
Cut
80 Hz and Below if Muddy
100 Hz ? Cut to Increase Clarity and Decrease Boom
800 Hz ? To Decrease Some Undesirable Guitar Body Resonances
3 KHz ? To Add Transparency or to lessen conflict with the Vocal Tracks
100 Hz and Below ? Cut to Get Rid of Muddiness


Boost
1.5- 3 KHz ? To Increase Clarity
100 -125 Hz ?To Add Bottom end
60-75 Hz ? To Add Crunch
120 - 250 Hz ? To Add Warmth
240 ? 500 Hz ? To Add Body
480 - 700Hz ? To Increase Thickness of High Mid Frequencies
6-9Khz - To Increase Presence

Acoustic Guitar
Cut
1-3 KHz if Tinny Sounding
100- 300 Hz if Bloomy or Muddy Sounding
Cut Below 80 Hz

Boost
2.5 - 5 KHz and Above Adds Sparkle
7 KHz ? To Add Brightness
125 Hz - To Add Fullness
150 to 240 Hz - To Add Body

Lead Vocals
Cut
2 ? 2.5 KHz ? if Scratchy or if the ?S? Sounds are Too Sibilant or Hiss Too Much
1KHz - if Nasal
80 Hz ? If ?P? Plosives are Too Obvious ? In addition to using a Pop filter for Tracking
250-800 Hz if Muddy Sounding

Boost
8 KHz Helps to Bring Out of Mix
3 KHz ? This is the Magic Vocal Frequency! Clarity At or Above This Frequency Range
12 ? 15 KHz ? Adds Airiness
120 ? 150 Hz ? Adds Fullness
100-250 Hz ? Adds Immediacy to the Listener on the Lower Med Frequencies
200 ? 400 Hz Body and Depth

Background Vocals
Cut
250 Hz & 2.5 ? 3.5 KHz To Differentiate From lead Vocal Track

Boost
10 KHz

Piano and Keyboards
Cut
1-2 KHz If Tinny sounding
300 Hz If Boomy sounding

Boost
Add 2.5 KHz and Narrow Bandwidth for country Honky Tonk Upright Piano sound
5-6 KHz Increases Presence
100 Hz Increases Bottom End
100-250 Hz ? Adds Immediacy to the Listener
40 ? 60 Hz Adds Resonance to Acoustic Piano

Piano should not have too much bottom end or they will conflict with other lower register instruments

Horns and Strings or Synth Patches
Cut
2.5 or 5 KHz ? To Cut Shrillness
3KHz - If Scratchy or Sibilant
1KHz - If Too Much Abrasive Attack
120Hz or Below ? Cut if Sound is Too Muddy

Boost
8-12 KHz ? Heats Up Signal
120 or 240 Hz ? Adds Fullness
2KHz and Above ? Brings Out Clarity
400-600 Hz ? Brings Out Richness in Strings

Here are some websites that may offer additional clarification on the matter.

http://buzzchurch.com/viewtopic.php?t=717

http://www.recordingwebsite.com/rwtip/a ... rw14r.html

http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/eq/1.asp


Cheers

[river]

One good reason to use a high pass filter on certain tracks as well as on a finished mix is that you lose a lot of headroom for mixing with subsonic stuff down below 20Hz. You don't hear it, but it's there and using up voltage. Another technique that's useful is (generally) to use a very narrow bandwidth at the low end for cut or boost, and gradually open it up as you go to the high end. An exception would be if you're going to try de-essing something longhand with a parametric, then you need a notch somewhere between 3-8k.
I agree and disagree with some of what Daylight is saying.....if you use a wide Q while boosting low end material, you WILL get mud. I agree that subtractive EQ (cutting offenders) is always best to try first....it's another way to control your available headroom, but all EQ processing causes phase shift, not just boosting, unless you're using a phase linear style EQ.
Learning how to carve out distinct spaces for your tracks in the low end and low mids with EQ is probably the hardest part of getting a good mix. Reverb can contribute to the confusion here also. If you can shoot for the sounds you ultimately think you want while tracking by virtue of mic choice and placement and tracking without EQ (especially because of potential stacking of phase shift problems later) you'll be in good shape. BTW, I set high pass at 30Hz and 12db/octave. Good luck with it!

[Wolfman Sack]

The advice I've gotten here is just unbelievably helpful. Thanks so much for all of the replies!

[pedrohead]

I may get launched for saying this (and of course, use your ears to confirm or deny anything you're hearing) but what i often start with as far as high passing (with rock/indie/emo/hardcore stuff that i seem to be doing mostly nowadays) is to hi pass the bass guitar at about 70 Hz, the guitars at about 100 Hz. that way the kick owns 40-70, bass guitar owns 70-100, and guitar can fill up from 100-on. of course i'm doing little cuts and boosts along the way to notch problem frequencies and whatnot, and ultimately using my ears to see how things sound overall, but this is where i usually start and seems to be what you asked in the original question.

...oh yeah, and i usually hi pass the whole mix with a corner frequency at 40 hz during mastering. just to get rid of any energy that may be getting sucked up in frequencies that most speakers can't even reproduce.

flame me.... now.

[I'm Painting Again]

E.Q. is wonderful and necessary aspect of mixing no matter how judiciously the original tracks were recorded.

see this is totally an opinion not a fact..many records we love never touched an eq..besides maybe the "eq" that specific pieces of gear impart naturally..Its totally a common tool now..but what about when people were cutting records in the "golden age"?..when eq was not very common..you just had your mics and a tape recorder..you know..theres nothing wrong with using EQ..its just that it isnt manditory to make a good record..and not using these kinds of tools when your learning makes you a better engineer down the line because it forces you to get that much better with placement and such..though thats just my personal mad scientologist opinion on learning the craft..

http://www.ronthemusicmaker.org/prop.htm

[Wolfman Sack]

I think it's cool you all have different views on it, they are all valid - just depends on how and where you want to use it, I've learned that from all of your posts.

The main reason that this came up was because I was listening to the album "In The Valley Of Dying Stars" by Superdrag, and the band just sounds massive on that record. I listened to it on headphones and could pick out that everything seemed to occupy it's own space - when the band drops out for a guitar break, you can clearly hear how midrangey the guitar tone is, and how different the two guitars sound - one is complete spongy midrange and the other has more heft to it.

Those guitars wouldn't sound so great on their own, for sure - but they fit together well in the mix.

Another example are the guitars in "We're Coming Out" by the Replacements on Let It Be - you can hear two distinct guitar tones on there right before the guitar solo when the two are just bashing away - not attractive on their own, but in the whole band arrangement it sounds fantastic.

I want to experiment with layering guitar tracks so I figured this was an important item to get a handle on.........I can't tell you how many demos and records of local bands I've heard where the guitars are just a pile of mush. I figured that's because two guitars and a bass sharing the same frequencies just contributes to buildup and kills any clarity between the sounds.

When I used to play in a band with another guitar player, we used to divvy up the guitar parts between the bottom and the top of the neck - one guy would play the chords down low and the other one would play inversions up past the 7th fret - so they each had their own space. It sounded huge. Now that I think about it, that ties in with what we've been talking about here......

[soundguy]

dude, you got some good reference on this thread, but the only way to apply an EQ is to turn the knob and listen to what it does. period.

depending upon how you build your mix (annd most importantly) what you want it to sound like, you can hipass a variety of things to make it work. Someone posted on here recently that you should hipass guitars at like 200 hz or something, which is fine if you are trying to make an 80's metal megadeth style sounding record. If you have low guitars however, you might be better off hipassing the bass above the guitars, it really all depends on what the song wants you to do to it. There are no rules to this and there certainly isnt a guide to make it all easy. Knowing where the fundamental corner for a note is will definitely help you but if you are recording rock, there's lots of harmonics in both a guitar chord and a guitar chord recorded through a marshall on 10 so think of that stuff as just a guide, you really need to turn the knob and see where it sounds best. Theres a finer degree to this, where a given signal chain will put a recorded source psychoacoustically that usually goes unmentioned. The ratio of a transformer can change where something sits the same way that adding a 1k5 shelf 2dB will do. So, depending upon how the stuff went to tape will also influence how you eq them.

dont think to hard and dont be looking at a fucking monitor. Recording is actually really really really easy. Come up with a plan for what you want the overall picture of your mix to sound like. Get your levels roughly where you feel they should be, try to get your intra-mix relationships as close as you can, then start turning knobs until it all works together. Its pretty simpe stuff if you allow yourself to just listen to what you are doing and stop thinking about how to do it. nobody that ever listens to anything you ever do will stop to think about wether or not you knew what the fundamental of the kick drum was or if you understand how a state variable EQ really works, they only will judge you by what the song sounds like, so concentrate on making it sound good. its easy.

dave

[Wolfman Sack]

Makes sense. Thanks for the input!