Germanium vs. API

[pk]

M'k, my first dip into the pro preamp shopping pool and the timing is uncanny, lots of new units at a decent price have recently surfaced. I originally had planned on a UA LA-610 and calling it a day until I could afford another one later on. Then came the Groove Tubes Supre announcement, lots of hype around the unit but alas, it is still picturewear at the moment, a looker on every retailer site but no units are yet shipping, no one's heard it, no one knows when it will be available, only that "it should sound pretty good" (and may I add it does look like a killer deal).

Then came the API A2D announcement. These are shipping but I haven't made it to a user review just yet. Two 314 pres and a pair of A/D converters at a great price, where did they cut corners? I have never used good preamps, ever, only know a shitload in theory from reading these great messageboards for years. Many have told me "save your money and get some API or real Neve or Telefunkens and avoid the UA stuff, get something that will undoubtedly sound great and holds good resale value" M'k....so far, this API dual channel sounds like it could be great.

However, would the API A2D be a good all-'round pre for keys, bass, guitars and even vocals? From what I have read so far, API pres really excel on drums and guitars, stuff with defined transients, which is why I wonder if it's the right choice as my one go-to pre, if only for a little while. Hence the Germanium questions...

So far so good on the Germanium reviews, so I think as of now I will narrow it to those 2. Sure, the API is a dual channel which has it's advantages, but I would dismiss that in favor of a better (or more versatile) unit overall. I don't do too many live drums, but am increasingly recording guitars and re-kindling my love for them after many synth and sample years. The latter will still be part of the process, but getting great guitar signals is key, as is live bass and vocal. All that said, a Fatso is on the wishlist for the fall.

Germanium, API A2D, GT Supre? Any advice would be great!

[Meriphew]

I use API's pretty heavily. I think they sound great on any source. I haven't tried the A2D, so I can't really comment on it - though if its converters are good it looks like a killer deal. I'll eventually pick up a Germ or two. If you need converters, the A2D could be the way to go, if not, I'd start up a lunchbox, as there are alot of great companies making pres that will fit it now.

[I'm Painting Again]

hey pk..you should make a list of what your needs and wants are from a microphone amp..

as an api 512c user I can say I like them..I have four channels in a lunchbox..they are not my favorite pres but for general purpose they work very well..the build quality is some of the best craftsmanship in the business..It seems, and I don't know if this is true or not, that the api's give a great signal when recording on tape..maybe they were designed with that in mind?..they are punchy and can get aggressive which seem to counteract the drawbacks of tape recording..

if recording to a DAW I might opt for something more Neve-ish or Tube-ish..from my somewhat limited experience..but on the other hand the apis haven't let me down recording into a DAW either..

the UA stuff is absolutely fantastic so don't rule the 610 out either!

I think a lunchbox is a great idea for you as well because it can give you a great education in different flavours of mic amp without breaking the bank..

[I'm Painting Again]

one more thing I would likek to say is that I like preamps with at least 2 gain controls..With my 512c's I needed to buy some inline pads to use with them..I like the ability to trim the output as to hit the converter/tape at the level thats optimal for what I'm working on..

[pk]

hey pk..you should make a list of what your needs and wants are from a microphone amp..

It's really just about moving up from pro-sumer stuff for me at this point. The only preamps I have used so far are Digi 001/002R's, so I am really trying to get better quality on the way in. Musically, I do mostly instrumental stuff (ie: Massive Attack, Amon Tobin, etc.) but am looking at recording other people's material as well now, which is more guitar and vocal oriented. Perhaps the API is the better option at this point?

[mjau]

one more thing I would likek to say is that I like preamps with at least 2 gain controls..With my 512c's I needed to buy some inline pads to use with them..I like the ability to trim the output as to hit the converter/tape at the level thats optimal for what I'm working on..

Yep...a quality pre with an output trim can give so many options depending on how hard you drive it. I'll take that over something mediocre with loads of bells and whistles any day.

[Meriphew]

Perhaps the API is the better option at this point?

IMNSHO, you really can't go wrong with API's as your first high quality pres. You'll use them forever - you'll never outgrow them or find them to be of less than stellar overall quality.

[NU-TRA]

Api's are more versatile! I lovem!

[UXB]

I hate to be a fly in the vaseline of your decision, but I have worked with API 512's and many others, and recently went out on a limb with the Great River MP2-NV.

It, like the API, is very versatile, with a gentle to very aggressive "push" depending on how you drive the circuit. It also has a built in send/return, and metering, which is handy if you want to locate it in the tracking room.

Having used it for a few months now, I couldn't be happier. I chose this over the API 312/512 options due to the ability to drive/change the circuit in many ways.

With almost any of your aforementioned options you will be very very happy, so don't feel like you're going to be making a horrible mistake with any of those purchases.

Regards,
H

[Ethan Holdtrue]

I've never used the API's but I did pick up a CL Germ a little while ago, and I am pretty happy with it. Lots of clarity, and beef, however I will say that I have found alot of the reviews to be over stated. Still it's a prett awesome pre, and works well for overheads, as well as clean and distorted guitar. I'm sure it's awesome on other sources as well it's just that's all I've used it for so far. The 1/4 DI in the front sounds like WHOA, and just rules.

[fremitus]

i'm going to wholeheartedly agree about having some API's around. you'll be happy with them forever. done. the germanium IS indeed a great piece of gear, but it definitely has more of a thumbprint that might not be an everyday choice, although what the hell, be the guy who is all germanium, all day and show us what it's all about.

i can tell you that Amon Tobin is summing through a Chandler TG Mini mixer these days. but that doesn't say anything about the pre's does it...

[linus]

OK. There a couple important points to be made here. The discussion seems to be driven by product here instead of what you need.

What do you need?
One channel or two?
Do you need convertors or not?
What sort of sound are you after, natural/transparent or do you want some color/characteristics added?
If you want color added, can you describe what you want?

The germ and that Api seem like comparing apples and oranges (1 vs 2 channels, convertor or not).

When I think of pro gear I think of stuff that will be just as useful in 10 years as it is today. For that reason I would skip the integrated pre and convertor combos. You won't be interested in the convertors in that thing in a few years. We'll all be using other stuff by then. Want some APIs? Fine, but I'd get some racked 312s (Like the Brent Averills) or some 512s in a lunchbox. Then get convertors separately as you need them.

So I'd recommend you examine your needs verses what you already own then take a look at what will be the best fit.

[Ethan Holdtrue]

On a side note I did get a better bass tone last night with my Art Tube Pac over my Germ.

[jrepro]

maybe not so obvious to a new user but:

API are in general a more veristle (Utility) type of Pre over the NEVE stuff. That is, it can be used for just about every source with good results. The NEVE style preamps are nice sounding but can be slow and thumpy on some sources. I would not really record a kick with a NEVE unless I am looking for a lot of boom and not as much attack. Both great preamps, but one is much more versitle. You can adjust/eq an API to be fuller or darker to match the NEVEs tone. But the APIs are faster sounding. These really repsond great to drums, guitars, cymbals ect. And still sound good on vocals too.

If you need a first preamp that can be used for lots of sources, go with the API IMO>

Joe

[pk]

Thank you all for your responses, learning a lot here this is great. That said, I will hold out for a bit longer as the Groove Tubes Supre release is imminent and is definitely worth another look, or at least a few user reviews as it looks like a great unit for the price. Otherwise, I think the scale tips in favor of the API.