Make soft synths sound less two-dimensional

Knights Who Say Neve · Post by **Knights Who Say Neve** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:40 pm

I am trying to remix a project done in Ableton Live. All the sounds that aren't loops are from the built-in instruments (synth leads, basses, and drum hits mostly). The synth tracks are all very "flat" sounding- they don't jump out at all. Everything sorta sounds bland, and 2-D. Any suggestions for giving each instrument its own personality?

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:28 pm

Did you try re-amping them?

inverseroom · Post by **inverseroom** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:37 pm

I DI all my software sounds through a tube pre...but that's not very helpful to you maybe. How about a saturation plugin? Or amplitude or something...

effector · Post by **effector** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:47 pm

i, too, suggest generous reamping.

Knights Who Say Neve · Post by **Knights Who Say Neve** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:11 am

I'm thinking of sending 3 stereo sub mixes (my soundcard has 6 outs w/o using the adat port) through my board and down to 1/4", then re-recording the mix back to the PC for the inevitable CD burn, breaking the stems down like this: drums, bass (mono), something else (mono), everything else. Hit each track w/ different compressors and eq out in analogland. Worth trying?

jamoo · Post by **jamoo** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:50 am

inverseroom wrote:I DI all my software sounds through a tube pre...but that's not very helpful to you maybe. How about a saturation plugin? Or amplitude or something...

Interesting. Line -> DI/Mic -> Pre -> Line again.

I could see that being useful, but I'm not sure what for.

YOUR KONG · Post by **YOUR KONG** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:54 am

I was going to suggest different compressors, yes - that makes a huge difference - but you can do this still in the digital realm.

I think - what's your setup? Can you use software fx?

Other solutions involve detuning them a few microscopic cents in different directions, or add a very subtle VERY SLOW chorus to give their tuning more variation - (that's one of the of the dangers of digital, I think - the tuning is perfect on all instruments, whereas in the real world...)

Maybe some tape saturation plugs on one or two and a fuzz/overdrive/distortion with VERY low settings on the others...

Or do ALL of the above and blend them all together...

UXB · Post by **UXB** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:59 am

Just out of curiousity, is this a problem with sound quality in Live, or is this a problem with most DAW's you've worked with? Are the synths from the same company, or does the problem exist with all synth tracks regardless?

-H

earl parameter · Post by **earl parameter** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:10 am

i would suggest that you try whatever you can. without hearing what sort of setting or environment the tracks are to be in, id suggest taking each troubled track out by itself and running it trough something. be it a pedal or amp or just slamming it into a channel on your board (anything different) and then bring each back in. but not just once. do it a couple times for each sound if necessary and then pan each a little bit off from the next to give it a wider stage so to speak (or just up underneath the original to give it a little something). then on the tracks that get panned off to the far left or right, add little bit of verb or something to sort take the focus off of them. just a little and lower the volumes a touch. for some of you that might seem like a lot of work, but i do it all the time. having multiple images of the same thing to move around in the stereo field can really help as long as you can keep it from getting cluttered. you will probably end up doing a bit of filtering on the highs and lows, but some of the outboard will do it for you. cheap mics and pedals and such. you then have the option of cutting back and forth between the new and old tracks. muting in verses and things. options are good. especially with sterile electronic tracks

wow another run on sentence. sorry

kakumei47 · Post by **kakumei47** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:44 pm

i second (or third) everyone who suggested reamping. soft synths tend to sound like soft synths unless they get out of the computer. DI may work too, but I get more luck when mixing if I have some amp signal. Most drum programming benefits from this too (at least via DI, I usually use less amp for this).
We're currently working with a band that did all the tracks in reason. Their last recording was really weak and 2d. Just getting some air on it and putting it through the board has worked wonders already...

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:05 pm

I think getting the synth to sound more 3D has more to do with the context of both it and the things around it in the mix..you can use "reamping" or compression as tools to get there..but if everything is "flat" it won't matter what you do..

also don't underestimate the power of the pan pot!

bplr · Post by **bplr** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:11 pm

UXB wrote:Just out of curiousity, is this a problem with sound quality in Live, or is this a problem with most DAW's you've worked with? Are the synths from the same company, or does the problem exist with all synth tracks regardless?

-H

i doubt if this is a synth-specific problem. it's probably a digital thing. i've had issues with every soft synth i've ever used, personally. i'll refrain from subjective qualifiers, but a nice analog synth has something going on that digital still can't touch.

as for live, it seems to me that it's shit-tons better than reason for sound quality, but lacking in depth and clarity when put next to pro tools. don't forget to make sure your samples are set to high quality mode. they leave you the option to use a lower quality sampling method to lighten the cpu load, and it defaults to low quality. sometimes i forget and it'll sound like crap. this doesn't effect the synths, but it's worth noting in case you're using live's sampling capabilities.

effector · Post by **effector** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:33 pm

personally, i hate not being able to hear any room sound in a recording. that kills it for me - whether it's soft synth type stuff, or steely dan, or whatever. everything just sounds flat and 'unreal'. anyway, if you wanted to keep it 'in the box', maybe a convolution reverb would help?

Mr. Dipity · Post by **Mr. Dipity** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:17 pm

To be frank, I don't subscribe to the pop-recording 'soft synths always sound like ass' philosophy. This is could be a lot of things.

- Are you mixing down in 16 bit, or 24?
- What soft synths are we talking about?
- Are you mixing in Live, or are you rendering out and using something else?
- What have you tried so far to get the sound you are looking for?

Mixing in 16 bit is going to kill your dynamic range, if you are doing anything drastic after the fact.

There are good sounding soft synths and not so good ones. One could argue that there are more flat and grainy sounding ones than physical ones.

Live's mixing engine (and Live in general) is built to be fast and cheap on resources. It's an instrument, not a DAW. I've been using it very heavily lately, and finding it agonizingly frustrating - the time stretch is so awful compared to the alternatives, but, it's so easy to use that other methods don't cut it.

Compressors, Saturators, Eq, Exciters, Reamping are all fundamental tools to shaping a sound to what you want. What have you tried so far?

bickle · Post by **bickle** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:50 am

maybe this is a dumb question, but how do I reamp something w/o buying a reamp box?
I've got the same problem w/ the soft synths I use occasionally to compensate for my lack of pricey organs/electric pianos, etc. I'm not opposed to plugins, but plugins on soft synths never adds up to quite 'real' sounding...and these are decent synths at full quality, mixed at 24 bit, etc.
I've got good guitar, bass, and even keyboard amps handy, but I don't want to blow them up - so what's the safe, hopefully cheap way to do this? (my computer can output at -10 unbalanced or +4 balanced, if that helps)
thanks!

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Make soft synths sound less two-dimensional

Make soft synths sound less two-dimensional

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