"packaging" a mix

[cgarges]

This is excactly the sort of thing I've been trying to get happening since I first started getting paid to record on ADATs.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Ethan Holdtrue]

With ITB there IS a tone thing too, sorry guys...but it's always thin & papery or just small & narrow. Going through a good analog desk & all the outboard rounds off all the edges & has more tonal 'breathing room' not to mention more headroom & that subtle compression thing.

These days compareable digital and analog decks sound pretty much the same. If your getting a 'thin' sound your probably in need of some better converters/gear. There are pleanty of crappy analog decks out there just like there are pleanty of crappy digital decks. The thing is everyone is buying the crappy digital ones cause they can actualy pay for them and they are more available and require less upkeep.

I've noticed a huge increase in clarity since I started tracking through my MOTU/Sonar rig over my old Layla 24/96 and my and other peoples tape tecks, digital or otherwise. I'm sure theres a analog deck that sounds better than my rig, and I'm sure theres a Digital rig that sounds better than that analog deck. It's all about how much quality you want and can pay for.

[@?,*???&?]

As far as those cables go - the're more linear than standard copper. Cool! But, with a DI that's what I don't want nessesarily - I mean, that if I want to not have the DI sound 'flat' in the time domain sense, cables that are even more 'flat' than the copper I'm using are going to push me in the opposite direction of what I'm after...

or am I completely missing your point? That's entirely possible! Long (productive, but long) day today and I'm a little cooked.

It's actually the transient magic that's so cool about the Zaollas. All cable will have all frequencies represented. With this cable it's the open transient detail that is so stunning- so succinctly not-fet-circuit related. Ever notice how a fet circuit irons out nuance?

[Mark Alan Miller]

As far as those cables go - the're more linear than standard copper. Cool! But, with a DI that's what I don't want nessesarily - I mean, that if I want to not have the DI sound 'flat' in the time domain sense, cables that are even more 'flat' than the copper I'm using are going to push me in the opposite direction of what I'm after...

or am I completely missing your point? That's entirely possible! Long (productive, but long) day today and I'm a little cooked.

It's actually the transient magic that's so cool about the Zaollas. All cable will have all frequencies represented. With this cable it's the open transient detail that is so stunning- so succinctly not-fet-circuit related. Ever notice how a fet circuit irons out nuance?

That is interesting to me! Sort of in the opposite way that I'm referring to regarding my original post in this thread, but that's cool.
That is, because of overtly and decidedly linear nature of these cables, you say DIs have a particular presence to them... very interesting indeed.



On the side-discussion of anloag vs digital that this somehow got to; that's not what I meant to bring up at all... Always a healthy (if not overdone) topic of debate, but not what I was asking about. (I can jump right in easily and say that I make plenty of "warm" records that never see tape, etc etc...)
So, while I don't want to discourage that angle, I'd really like to encourage others! What I'm really asking is for people's insight into sonic glue for a mix in many ways, analog printing being one of them, and one of the most common. What are others? Why do you think they work? Have there been ideas you'd like to try? Why?

Again, the smile-face is requisite!

[jmoose]

What I'm really asking is for people's insight into sonic glue for a mix in many ways, analog printing being one of them, and one of the most common. What are others? Why do you think they work? Have there been ideas you'd like to try? Why?

Using just one or maybe two 'verbs is a great way to glue seperate elements of a mix together...using more then that is sometimes cool but generally just puts all the instruments in their own spaces.

Generally I'll set up one long 'verb & one short one...then blend in different amounts of each instrument...sometimes feeding BOTH 'verbs which come back to the desk in stereo. I'm not against using more, sometimes I'll reach for & dial up that third reverb if there's something that wants to be in it's own world like a "space" guitar or piano.

Using some compression on the 2-mix is another way to add "glue" to a mix. Some boxes do a better job of it then others...the Manley Vari-Mu has TONS of 'glue' while an SSL-type has less, or at least a different type of glue. That'd be more like 15 second epoxy while the 'MU' is like dropping the mix into a vat of the slow-cure stuff.

[Mark Alan Miller]

Cool, cool! Yeah, keeping the ambient space cohesive is sort of what I'm talking about - as is 2-buss compression.

But it's not, at least in my mind, exactly what I'm after here.

It's a cohesive shape to the mix, where everything is somehow, I dunno, time-aligned - but not in a "I lined up the overheads to the snare mic" kinda way - more in a "everything is arriving in the treble region, in the upper mids, in the lower mids, in the lows" kinda way.

That epoxy metaphor might be in the ballpark of what I'm talking about... care to elaborate on what brought you to it?

Sorry to keep refining and narrowing what I'm looking for here, but as people respond, each post makes it clearer to me what I'm trying to ask about.

[Ethan Holdtrue]

Sorry I didn't mean to try to throw the thread way off with the whole tape/digital thing. I don't have much to contribute in this department cause the only outboard gear I ever use is mic pre's going in and a carvin board only to get levels under controle going in for the chanels I don't have any pre's to cover.

Basicly I just wanted to say sorry for throwing the thread off topic. :]

[Mark Alan Miller]

Basicly I just wanted to say sorry for throwing the thread off topic. :]

No no no! Discussion is always good. Tangents are always good. No apology nessesary.
I just am trying to steer it back on-topic, and, in reality, am figuring out what 'on-topic' for what I was initially asking is as we go along here.
Bringing up stuff like you did is helpful in focusing the topic for me, really...

[jmoose]

That epoxy metaphor might be in the ballpark of what I'm talking about... care to elaborate on what brought you to it?

Years & years of experience!

Yeah, sorry it's not a great answer but it's all I've got at the moment.

I dunno man...it's just one of those things that 'makes sense' to me...hearing things & processing them in my head takes about 30 seconds...

Kinda like how a band can bring me their demo & I'll listen to it for about a minute before I'll blurt out something like; "Did the drummer mix this?" and the whole band looks at each other and someone says; "How'd you know that???"

There IS something tangible that I hear when dealing with mixing and 2-buss processing but I'm gonna have to think about how to descibe what occurs in the whole ears to brain process and revisit this at some point...

[Mark Alan Miller]

That epoxy metaphor might be in the ballpark of what I'm talking about... care to elaborate on what brought you to it?

Years & years of experience!

Yeah, sorry it's not a great answer but it's all I've got at the moment.

I dunno man...it's just one of those things that 'makes sense' to me...hearing things & processing them in my head takes about 30 seconds...

Kinda like how a band can bring me their demo & I'll listen to it for about a minute before I'll blurt out something like; "Did the drummer mix this?" and the whole band looks at each other and someone says; "How'd you know that???"

There IS something tangible that I hear when dealing with mixing and 2-buss processing but I'm gonna have to think about how to descibe what occurs in the whole ears to brain process and revisit this at some point...

I completely understand. I'm also at the "years and years of doing this" stage - which is why I think I'm suddenly contemplating trying to put some of this into words.
I hope you can come up with a sentence or maybe a paragraph of elaboration some time - I'm very curious.

I'll also try to elaborate as things come to me.