the elusive kick drum

xonlocust · Post by **xonlocust** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:04 am

kylepdownes wrote:
Drummer of my old band used to tune his bass drum pretty tight so he could get a good rebound from his kick pedal. The most recent recording (he was doing a session for me), we got new heads and I tuned his drum somewhat loosely so there could be a good amount of air moving from the batter head's lateral movement into the microphone diaphragm.
this is something that i wanted to address also. i sort of understand tuning toms, kinda get snares, but when it comes to kick drums im clueless. what is the best way to go about getting a clients 15 year export kick to sound good, tuning wise?

beauty is in the eye of the behlder - but here's more info than you'll ever need re: tuning drums http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

for my tastes (speaking as a player [drumset player that is, not in a P.I.M.P. kinda way... but you know... whatever]) i tune the batter heads to respond how i want them to and use the resonants for the notes more. resonant head is a lot of times just north of floppy for the low end.

actually, back up - the best thing for a 15yr old kick is new heads. i'd change heads if they're more than 2yrs old.

situation dependent.

rambling insanity. not enough sleep.

majortom · Post by **majortom** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:29 pm

this is is good thread,very informative,

as a long time drummer when I first started recording/mixing I seemed to end up with too much bd in the mix and because of that it drew too much attention to that sound, so I was always tweaking it but it would'nt come out right most of the time.
After listening back to a lot of music I liked (from queen to miles) it seemed that in a vast majority of it the bd was more of a feeling and not a focus.

Obviously there are types of music where it (bd) belongs more out front, but lately it seems if I concentrate on the kit as a whole, when I mix the bass in it falls right into place.

When tracking the other day I was using an M/S mic set up through a UA 2108. I ended up bringing up the low end a bit when mixing, but overall after getting the placement right and placement of the kit right(to suit the song) I got a great kit sound.

Just some more thoughts...

Ethan Holdtrue · Post by **Ethan Holdtrue** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:08 pm

I just kinda skimed through this and didnt see any one say to much about the importance of useing overheads or mid/center kit mics. Prof- posted a few months ago about all drum sounds should start from the 'Top down'. That little jem of advice pretty much changed my world when it comes to recording drums.

So I guess what I'm trying to get at is this:

Make everything sound good in your overheads BEFORE you worry about what all your other mic's sound like. If you do that first, then everything else should be an embelishment.

The other thing I would like to say is that busses are your friends. They like it when you push a signal to the compressor and the EQ you have assigned to them, so let them help you out, that's what there there for. Try not to dump all your FX onto the main track on your DAW. :]

runrunrun · Post by **runrunrun** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:11 pm

id like to hear abit more about the idea of using two bass drums taped(?) together, infront of each other. I read that the first Franz Ferdinand album was recorded like this, with a 57 in side of the second kick. Anyone ever tried it?

Ethan Holdtrue · Post by **Ethan Holdtrue** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:31 am

Nope I've never tried the double shell thing.

I take a d-112 and put it some where between 3-8" (some times it's hard to see exactly how far your in there if it's a small drum) up above the impact area of the beater and aimed down at it. Then I take the big foam thingys that came with my MOTU HD896 and cram them in standing up along side the mic and throw an old sleeping bag over the whole out side and over where the front head goes (which is not there cause I don't seem to find it worth having on there ever). Get your self a good condencer mic and try to sneek it near the front side of the drum with out getting hit by the drummer or the beaters, and you have the beginnings of a embelishment to your overheads, which is probably where alot of the awesomeness of your bassdrum is going to come from anyway.

OMG do I need sleep....

knobtwirler · Post by **knobtwirler** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:25 pm

I can always find a better sounding sample in my library and just replace it. Also, it ends up having no bleed from the kit anymore.

Ethan Holdtrue · Post by **Ethan Holdtrue** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:05 pm

I've also been useing triggers, but I think I'm going to try to stop. Lately I have gotten the natural sound of the kick just about to where I and bands want it, and I typicaly record Metal/Grind/Hardcore. I figure if I can do it... man...

MT · Post by MT » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:10 pm

knobtwirler wrote:Also, it ends up having no bleed from the kit anymore.

Sometimes, that's the best part, IMO.

Ethan Holdtrue · Post by **Ethan Holdtrue** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:55 pm

Hey MT, dose the blade lazer thing have anything to do with the blazing lazers/S-Blade games for the TG-16? I have the first one and MAN dose it RULE!! :]

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:21 pm

electrictierack wrote:id like to hear abit more about the idea of using two bass drums taped(?) together, infront of each other. I read that the first Franz Ferdinand album was recorded like this, with a 57 in side of the second kick. Anyone ever tried it?

I've got a cool old Leedy&Ludwig 12x24 BD with a calf head on one side and a Fiberskyn on the other. I sometimes set it in front of the main BD and put a mic (LDC) on the outside. It add a nest low-end bloom. It works best on a slower tune with a more open arrangement. Its a cool trick, but not something I'd want to use all the time.

knobtwirler · Post by **knobtwirler** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:08 am

Ethan Holdtrue wrote:Hey MT, dose the blade lazer thing have anything to do with the blazing lazers/S-Blade games for the TG-16? I have the first one and MAN dose it RULE!! :]

hahaha Blade...Laser...Blazer... I love that movie!

A.David.MacKinnon · Post by **A.David.MacKinnon** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:06 am

My best results lately have been using a PZM in the drum (mine's a modded radio shack) and an Apex ribbon mic outside, about 4" away from the skiin, centered on the drum and away from the hole. (The Apex ribbon is the same as the Shinny Box and Tape Op ribbon)
Both mics went through an API pre. The ribbon went to the API and then a DBX 160 comp.
For most of the tunes the ribbon mic is all I need. It's got tons of boom and more of a pillowy thud than I was getting with a D112. It's not scooped sounding like the D112. If I need some point to the sound I just bring up some of the PZM.

Dave-H · Post by **Dave-H** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:41 am

Is the bass guitar masking the higher end of the bass drum?? I have had that happen with guy's that like to play up high on the neck!

Dave Huffman

mwerden · Post by **mwerden** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:00 pm

Does anyone have advice for controlling the attack of the kick drum? It seems like most new stuff has the kick sitting higher in the mix (around 2.5k or higher) but I love it when it sits a little lower frequency-wise (around 1k a la Back in Black). Nice and punchy. Anyway, anyone can turn up the EQ, I was just wondering if anyone has any mic choice/placement suggestions. Or tuning suggestions. Or anything else.

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:06 pm

you know,,, i would like for once just be able to mic the fucking kick, move the mic around and find the perfect spot and not have to touch the eq. that has never fucking happened to me. it would be cool and make my day if just once that could happen.

even the fucking drum tunnel/tent wasn't working for me today and that ALWAYS gives me goods... what a weird day. but in the end, the drums are killer sounding and it just took some knob turning. so i guess, actually, I like how every situation is completely different than the last. You really do have to work at it.

and speaking of work...

does anyone else sweat as much as i do just setting up and getting sounds? fuck the studio sweat/BO is ripe! stress stinks, i'm a hippy, where is my amber oil?

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the elusive kick drum

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