My name is Anthony, I am a singer songwriter; wanna be engineer/master engineer.
My humble studio consists of the VS2480-CD Karma Keyboard, an ADK-51 microphone, Behringer Truth monitors, a Tascam Sound card, and Wav Lab 4.0
Now I have been reading some books and I keep picking up on a lot of new verbage that I have never heard of. Like a D/A 48 track open reel recorder. What is that and what does it do? And, do I need one? The guy in the book said that if you are doing digital recording it is essential to have one if you want a great sound.
I guess what I am asking is. With what I am trying to do, do? I have enough equipment to get the results I am trying to get. I am a singer songwriter; people classify what I do as soul/rnb. But I just write what comes to me. I am trying to get that warm, full sound of a band (who isn?t). When I arrange, my parts are usually; a form of the Hammond B3, Piano, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass and drums. All these parts are played with my keyboard.
Me being a novice engineer and mastering engineer, I don?t know if I have all the tools to get the sound I am looking for. I am trying to go straight from my basement to the billboards. I say that to let you know I am not just making demos. I am trying to get a finished product from my home studio. I just need to know if I have the tools. If I don?t what do you think I need to add?
Does my studio have what it takes...
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anthonypayton
- gimme a little kick & snare
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Does my studio have what it takes...
There is no instant gratification in preparation. The reward is being prepared for the opportunity.- ME
Hey Anthony,
I listened to a few of your songs on your myspace web page. Things sound great, especially considering the awful quality of the audio player myspace uses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Au ... onary_Head
That link should help you get a better understanding of the D/A 48-track the book you read was referring to. And an open reel is just as it sounds. It is tape on a reel as opposed to being housed in a cassette (click on the "open reel" link in the link above to read more about that if you are interested).
Back to your recordings. The were really only two things that hit me as not being "pro" quality after a quick listen. The first was the drum/percussion sounds. They just seem dated. I really haven't heard much contemporary R&B, and I know sometimes trends in terms of sounds come back, but the drum sounds I heard really make the tracks seem like they are from the early 90's, maybe. The programming sounds good (beats and rhythm in general) but the sounds just hit me the wrong way for the tracks.
The other things is that you seem to have pretty strong vocals, but on "This should be the...", your vocals seem a bit thin, especially in the mids. Seems to go from a nice, controlled low end to a peaky/stressed upper mid. ? Have you tried other mics for your voice? Are you EQ'ing these tracks?
Nice voice, good arrangements. Maybe consider playing with the sounds a little more, or, if you are looking for some kind of investment, consider some software drum sample programs, or hardware samplers/drum machines.
-Darrill
I listened to a few of your songs on your myspace web page. Things sound great, especially considering the awful quality of the audio player myspace uses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Au ... onary_Head
That link should help you get a better understanding of the D/A 48-track the book you read was referring to. And an open reel is just as it sounds. It is tape on a reel as opposed to being housed in a cassette (click on the "open reel" link in the link above to read more about that if you are interested).
Back to your recordings. The were really only two things that hit me as not being "pro" quality after a quick listen. The first was the drum/percussion sounds. They just seem dated. I really haven't heard much contemporary R&B, and I know sometimes trends in terms of sounds come back, but the drum sounds I heard really make the tracks seem like they are from the early 90's, maybe. The programming sounds good (beats and rhythm in general) but the sounds just hit me the wrong way for the tracks.
The other things is that you seem to have pretty strong vocals, but on "This should be the...", your vocals seem a bit thin, especially in the mids. Seems to go from a nice, controlled low end to a peaky/stressed upper mid. ? Have you tried other mics for your voice? Are you EQ'ing these tracks?
Nice voice, good arrangements. Maybe consider playing with the sounds a little more, or, if you are looking for some kind of investment, consider some software drum sample programs, or hardware samplers/drum machines.
-Darrill
slowly panning across something kind of crappy...
I might not be the best person to answer because I haven't listened to much R&B/Soul. I recorded a few song for a producer and artist and they were happy with what came out, but I was lost on the lingo and beats.
So I am going on a limited experience with your genre, but one thing I can say for sure is they were very interested in the groove. Things had to be "in the pocket." They said there was no way a computer could pull it off. It was all about the give and take; the warm living blood flowing through the veins. They recorded drums and bass at the same time, and then guitar and vocals, then keys. I did some trumpet blasts for them, but since we only had a 4 track, it sounded thin and out of place. We trashed it for some backup singers.
The only gear I had was 4 mics, my 6 channel board and a 4 track tape deck. On the other hand, we had a vintage Gretsch drum kit, a killer Ampeg bass amp, a good P-bass, a Fender Deluxe Reverb, a vintage strat, and some great musicians who knew their parts and loved the music and each other.
I guess what I am saying is, as long as you have some great songs and talent, it doesn't matter how much gear you have. All you need is some way to get the music recorded and it looks like you have a mic, some instruments and a way to listen to it.
Totally different kind of music, but there is this band called Deerhoof who recorded an album called "Milk Man" with about the same kind of setup you have and I thought they had done a big huge studio gig for it. They were just very very focused on what they wanted the end product to sound like and went for it.
So all I can say is "Go for it."
So I am going on a limited experience with your genre, but one thing I can say for sure is they were very interested in the groove. Things had to be "in the pocket." They said there was no way a computer could pull it off. It was all about the give and take; the warm living blood flowing through the veins. They recorded drums and bass at the same time, and then guitar and vocals, then keys. I did some trumpet blasts for them, but since we only had a 4 track, it sounded thin and out of place. We trashed it for some backup singers.
The only gear I had was 4 mics, my 6 channel board and a 4 track tape deck. On the other hand, we had a vintage Gretsch drum kit, a killer Ampeg bass amp, a good P-bass, a Fender Deluxe Reverb, a vintage strat, and some great musicians who knew their parts and loved the music and each other.
I guess what I am saying is, as long as you have some great songs and talent, it doesn't matter how much gear you have. All you need is some way to get the music recorded and it looks like you have a mic, some instruments and a way to listen to it.
Totally different kind of music, but there is this band called Deerhoof who recorded an album called "Milk Man" with about the same kind of setup you have and I thought they had done a big huge studio gig for it. They were just very very focused on what they wanted the end product to sound like and went for it.
So all I can say is "Go for it."
not to worry, just keep tracking....
On first listen, if it were my stuff, I would pan those vocals dead center! For the Pop/R&B you are doing, that's the 'tradition.' Make the vocals the focal point and fit the other stuff around it. Nobody says you have to do it the same old way, there are no rules. But try it, you might like it!
Equipment-wise, out of your setup, the first thing I would upgrade in your position would be my monitors. I think monitors are the single most important thing in a studio. You can't fix/change what you can't hear.
Don't worry about the words you don't know the definitions to. When the questions present themselves to you in the course of your recording, you will find the answers. The ADK microphones are supposed to be great for the money. Just keep doing what you are doing and have fun, there is absolutely no way you will not get better.
Equipment-wise, out of your setup, the first thing I would upgrade in your position would be my monitors. I think monitors are the single most important thing in a studio. You can't fix/change what you can't hear.
Don't worry about the words you don't know the definitions to. When the questions present themselves to you in the course of your recording, you will find the answers. The ADK microphones are supposed to be great for the money. Just keep doing what you are doing and have fun, there is absolutely no way you will not get better.
reading your list I'd suggest new monitors and possibly a nice microphone preamp to go with that voice but you know what? listening to your recordings makes me think you have everything you need - you just need more time/practice with mixing.
If you want to see what other microphones have to offer you, you can rent them and try them out instead of dropping a bunch of cash on something you read online. Even cheaper is to book a few hours time in a studio with a nice collection and just try singing through everything. record your experiments right onto your roland and compare when you get home. bring your adk mic in for the shoot out.
It's great that you're reading and asking questions but consider booking 4-8 hours with a mixing engineer you know and respect to mix a song or two. Imagine how much you could take away from that.
I love your plan to go from basement to billboard. consider going from basement to mastering engineer to billboard. I think your recordings are sounding great (good point re: myspace - no one sounds good there but you do!) but a great mastering engineer can really make a difference. 'next level' difference. search around here or other forums for mastering and the reasons will start to present themselves. it's been said 1000 times and each of those are 100 times better than i can say so I wont waste your time. just do some searching.
If you want to see what other microphones have to offer you, you can rent them and try them out instead of dropping a bunch of cash on something you read online. Even cheaper is to book a few hours time in a studio with a nice collection and just try singing through everything. record your experiments right onto your roland and compare when you get home. bring your adk mic in for the shoot out.
It's great that you're reading and asking questions but consider booking 4-8 hours with a mixing engineer you know and respect to mix a song or two. Imagine how much you could take away from that.
I love your plan to go from basement to billboard. consider going from basement to mastering engineer to billboard. I think your recordings are sounding great (good point re: myspace - no one sounds good there but you do!) but a great mastering engineer can really make a difference. 'next level' difference. search around here or other forums for mastering and the reasons will start to present themselves. it's been said 1000 times and each of those are 100 times better than i can say so I wont waste your time. just do some searching.
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rushofblood
- pushin' record
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I'd still say to spring for a nice preamp, you only need one channel probably right? Something flattering to your voice, with lots of depth. I'd also suggest some more low-end content to the songs, that's important to the beat and the groove. Just get a nice groove and make your voice sound real good because that's what people listen to.
The recordings do sound good for what you have though!
For sure, if you get a pre, run your keys and whatever else outboard you've got through it as well.
The recordings do sound good for what you have though!
For sure, if you get a pre, run your keys and whatever else outboard you've got through it as well.
Nice job Anthony,
One thing is, that in spite of what the book you've been reading says, you don't need an open reel recorder to make good digital recordings... not that they don't sound good, as some do... but it's definitely not necessary, and is less used at this point than sound cards, native (pc based) systems, or card/interface combinations.
As has been suggested in earlier posts, I'd start with better monitors. There's a lot out there, so it can be confusing to pick the best for you, but it is really important. You're doing well with what you have, and improved monitoring will show you things you may not be hearing.
Keep up the good work! If you do this all the time, you can't help but improve.
One thing is, that in spite of what the book you've been reading says, you don't need an open reel recorder to make good digital recordings... not that they don't sound good, as some do... but it's definitely not necessary, and is less used at this point than sound cards, native (pc based) systems, or card/interface combinations.
As has been suggested in earlier posts, I'd start with better monitors. There's a lot out there, so it can be confusing to pick the best for you, but it is really important. You're doing well with what you have, and improved monitoring will show you things you may not be hearing.
Keep up the good work! If you do this all the time, you can't help but improve.
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I'm Painting Again
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Yo Anthony!
Your tracks are sweet..
You definitely don't need a tape recorder for your style of music..
If you want it to sound like a bigger budget production I think you should invest in a nice quality mic and mic preamp and then high quality analog to digital conversion/digital to analog conversion..those are the 3 things that need to be in place to get the sonic quality of a big budget production at home in my opinion..
as far as the speakers and power amp go, good ones (and acoustic room treatment) will help you hear everything properly but you don't need it..the recording goes down with the same quality no matter what speakers and room it's played through/in..you just have to get used to one or two pairs and after a while it won't matter because you will figure out how both they and the room your in lie to you..
ADC/DAC are the devices that convert the analog signal into binary
(1's & 0's)..and back..a nice stereo pair in and out interfaced to your computer will bring the fidelity up in your system considerably..
but the mic preamp and the mic is most important..that like the "camera" you capture your sound with..take the time to really find which ones you like and will work for your voice and any instruments you will record live..I like to think of these two pieces as one device..they react to each other differently and it may be a good idea to try out the ones your interested in together..
Your tracks are sweet..
You definitely don't need a tape recorder for your style of music..
If you want it to sound like a bigger budget production I think you should invest in a nice quality mic and mic preamp and then high quality analog to digital conversion/digital to analog conversion..those are the 3 things that need to be in place to get the sonic quality of a big budget production at home in my opinion..
as far as the speakers and power amp go, good ones (and acoustic room treatment) will help you hear everything properly but you don't need it..the recording goes down with the same quality no matter what speakers and room it's played through/in..you just have to get used to one or two pairs and after a while it won't matter because you will figure out how both they and the room your in lie to you..
ADC/DAC are the devices that convert the analog signal into binary
(1's & 0's)..and back..a nice stereo pair in and out interfaced to your computer will bring the fidelity up in your system considerably..
but the mic preamp and the mic is most important..that like the "camera" you capture your sound with..take the time to really find which ones you like and will work for your voice and any instruments you will record live..I like to think of these two pieces as one device..they react to each other differently and it may be a good idea to try out the ones your interested in together..
All due respect toolshed: How could you not need to hear everything properly?
I have heard many a great engineer say "you can get the sounds you want with whatever gear you have, as long as you have the sound in your head and you can hear what's really happening, you can work towards it... it might take a lot of work but you can at least get in the ballpark" or something along those lines. I'm not saying toolshed is wrong... but... it's just a different approach then what i've always had success with. All I know is that in my experience, my mixes began to get MUCH better once I got better monitors.
I do agree about the importance of learning the deficiencies of your monitors and room. But that is a LONG learning curve, and it all changes once you get new monitors or move to a new room! And there are just some things that you need to be able to hear accurately, like formant frequencies when you are EQing. Again, not saying you're wrong, just that my experiences have been different!
I have heard many a great engineer say "you can get the sounds you want with whatever gear you have, as long as you have the sound in your head and you can hear what's really happening, you can work towards it... it might take a lot of work but you can at least get in the ballpark" or something along those lines. I'm not saying toolshed is wrong... but... it's just a different approach then what i've always had success with. All I know is that in my experience, my mixes began to get MUCH better once I got better monitors.
I do agree about the importance of learning the deficiencies of your monitors and room. But that is a LONG learning curve, and it all changes once you get new monitors or move to a new room! And there are just some things that you need to be able to hear accurately, like formant frequencies when you are EQing. Again, not saying you're wrong, just that my experiences have been different!
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I'm Painting Again
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I just think that a pair of say ns-10's or truths, or what have you are completely workable and fine..that's why i don't classify uber expensive monitoring and treatment as a need but rather a want..I can see how some might say need though..it's not like it is not important or doesn't make the job a LOT easier..just stricktly from a recording quality POV it only has an indirect influence on the sound..
Okay! We will agree to disagree then! I'm always happy to do that!
BUT, I wouldn't go so far as to say it has an indirect influence on sound just because it's not in the signal path.
Do you think the engineer has an "indirect influence on sound?" What about the performer?
To me, getting great, truthul monitors is like "upgrading your mixing engineer," so to speak.
BUT, I wouldn't go so far as to say it has an indirect influence on sound just because it's not in the signal path.
Do you think the engineer has an "indirect influence on sound?" What about the performer?
To me, getting great, truthul monitors is like "upgrading your mixing engineer," so to speak.
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I'm Painting Again
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brad347 wrote:Okay! We will agree to disagree then! I'm always happy to do that!
BUT, I wouldn't go so far as to say it has an indirect influence on sound just because it's not in the signal path.
Do you think the engineer has an "indirect influence on sound?" What about the performer?
To me, getting great, truthul monitors is like "upgrading your mixing engineer," so to speak.
Well I think we are just looking at it differently..of course all these things influence the sound in the end..but there is a difference when something is in the path and something is not, no?..that is what I mean by "direct influence"..which very well might be a bad choice of language actually..
monitors change what you hear but not the actual sound quality (fidelity) of what you record..so they are intertwined in the whole mess because you make judgements off them..like you say..but at the same time they are in a way seperate..
I was trying to address the fact that the original poster would not need new great monitors to get the general "recording quality" of a big budget production..
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anthonypayton
- gimme a little kick & snare
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Hello
Thanks for all of the support and feedback. I just wrote this long reply and lost it cause I wasn't longed in 
What I said before was... I don't think that I am going to add new monitors at this time. I don't think my problem is hearing accuracy. Not saying that I have the most accurate monitors either
What I am trying to figure out is.... How to make my music sound familiar and if I have the equipment to do so. If I take 12 background vocals and put them in a mix. They are going to look like numbers on a clock.
The music I listen to sounds like there are vocals floating around in the air. I can pan vocals left and right, but I can move them up, down, forward and back.
Also if I do background vocals I will just support the lead vocal with the supporting chord. So if I am singing the F note I will structure the chord like- F-A-C-F sing each part three times and pan away. What I get is a gospel choir sound.
Now when I hear what I consider moving and inspirational soul and r&b; I hear a Lead vocal that is supported by whispered vocals then octave vocals high and low, and then doubled lead vocals that are panned. But when I try this the vocals sound like they are competing for space. Then I end up going back to whats familiar.
That is where the question came from. Do I have what it takes to accomplish this goal? And if so how?
I am meeting with a guy tomorrow that says what I am missing is version of protools. Now this is what I am trying to avoid: A studio full of equipment that I don't know how to use or can't use. Just for some one to tell me you need to call Brian Mcknight to get the sound you are looking for People from Roland claim that this DAW is a powerful piece of equipment, but they can't tell you how to trick it out.
Someone said something about preamps. The VS has built in preamps that can't be bypassed. That is why the guy at the music store says I need protools. But is the preamps stopping me from spacing and moving my vocals in my mix.
I said some other things in my previous letter but I can't recall them. LOL
What I said before was... I don't think that I am going to add new monitors at this time. I don't think my problem is hearing accuracy. Not saying that I have the most accurate monitors either
What I am trying to figure out is.... How to make my music sound familiar and if I have the equipment to do so. If I take 12 background vocals and put them in a mix. They are going to look like numbers on a clock.
The music I listen to sounds like there are vocals floating around in the air. I can pan vocals left and right, but I can move them up, down, forward and back.
Also if I do background vocals I will just support the lead vocal with the supporting chord. So if I am singing the F note I will structure the chord like- F-A-C-F sing each part three times and pan away. What I get is a gospel choir sound.
Now when I hear what I consider moving and inspirational soul and r&b; I hear a Lead vocal that is supported by whispered vocals then octave vocals high and low, and then doubled lead vocals that are panned. But when I try this the vocals sound like they are competing for space. Then I end up going back to whats familiar.
That is where the question came from. Do I have what it takes to accomplish this goal? And if so how?
I am meeting with a guy tomorrow that says what I am missing is version of protools. Now this is what I am trying to avoid: A studio full of equipment that I don't know how to use or can't use. Just for some one to tell me you need to call Brian Mcknight to get the sound you are looking for
People from Roland claim that this DAW is a powerful piece of equipment, but they can't tell you how to trick it out. Someone said something about preamps. The VS has built in preamps that can't be bypassed. That is why the guy at the music store says I need protools. But is the preamps stopping me from spacing and moving my vocals in my mix.
I said some other things in my previous letter but I can't recall them. LOL
There is no instant gratification in preparation. The reward is being prepared for the opportunity.- ME
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