Where to have the Tube?

parlormusic · Post by **parlormusic** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:43 am

I've been wondering about this for a while now. Can anybody tell me what, if any, difference in sound there is by using a tube mic through a solid state pre vs. a non-tube mic through a tube preamp? What could I expect if I run a tube mic thru a tube preamp?

I currently have a couple of tube mics, but no tube pres. I record mostly acoustic music and was wondering which combination typically sounds best for my application.

parlormusic · Post by **parlormusic** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:50 am

No takers?

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:27 am

well. . .here's my take. . .

First. . .read "Behind the Gear" in the latest TapeOP. Aspen Pittman's explanation of why tube gear is great is priceless. I've been a big fan of this man for a long time and this article really showed the "voodoo" behind tubes.

When you're done reading that. . . .

A good mic is a good mic and a good pre is a good pre. Most "tube pres" that you find today (at least on the sub $1k market) are just solid state preamps that run the circuit through a 12ax7 tube to "create warmth." What they're really doing is adding a bit of distortion to your signal (which you may or may not want). This is the "tube sound" that you're always hearing about (although I'm not into preamp tubes breaking up. . .). In a tube mic. . .the point isn't to break up. Read the article to hear a great explanation about it.

Bottom line is that I think it doesn't matter. If you "want to add tubes to warm up your sound," then I think you're looking for a tube preamp. If you already have a tube mic that you like. . .or are looking for one. . .plug it into a preamp that it sounds good with. . .tubes or no tubes. . .

-James

farview · Post by **farview** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:47 am

The tube isn't really the point. The sub- $1000 mic preamps are just using the tube as an effect, they are not real tube preamps. The tubes are normally under-powered so they will distort instantly. That is mixed in with the solid state preamp signal that is doing all the work.

Personally, I don't find tube mics in general any 'warmer' that than other condensers of the same quality. (Is a C12 any warmer than a U87?) Two different mics will sound different, the type of circuitry isn't the point. Pick the mic that sounds the best on what you are recording.

Preamps: Again, the same thing. Pick the one that works best with the source. I would like to point out that most of the 'holy grail' mic preamps are solid state. A solid state Neve is going to sound 'warmer' than any $300 toob preamp that you get a banjo mart.

Just because it has a tube in it doesn't mean it's 'warm' sounding. In fact, at the same price point, tube stuff will sound worse than solid state. It is more expensive to produce a real tube circuit, so the good ones will be expensive. I would pick a $500 solid state preamp over a $500 tube preamp sight unseen.

parlormusic · Post by **parlormusic** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:15 am

Thanks for the replies, but maybe I should clarify more. If I get a tube preamp, I'll get the Hamptone unit. I won't mess around with the cheapo stuff.

What I really want to know is what, if any, sonic differences/benefits there are in having a tube mic go into a solid state pre vs the other way around. And is there a benefit to using BOTH in a recording chain, or will there be too much harmonic distortion etc?

I can honestly say that I can hear a characteristic in my Mojave Audio MA200, Neumann KM-56 and AT4060 that I don't hear in any other of my non-tube mics. They have a little more fatness and air that sounds good to me. I wonder if I can get more of that good sound if using a tube pre....?

farview · Post by **farview** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:07 am

The website says "THD = 1% at 0vu out, +4dBm." for both the tube and FET version of the preamp.

I'm not sure I would use something that is that distorted at nominal line level. My Langevin Dual Vocal Combo is 0.05 THD. Same spec on the Manley Mono mic pre. (a tube preamp).

Marc Alan Goodman · Post by **Marc Alan Goodman** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:38 pm

parlormusic wrote:What I really want to know is what, if any, sonic differences/benefits there are in having a tube mic go into a solid state pre vs the other way around. And is there a benefit to using BOTH in a recording chain, or will there be too much harmonic distortion etc?

It doesn't make the darndest difference.

A million awesome records and awesome sounds have been recorded with tube mics into tube pres. A million more with tube mics into solid state pres. A million more with solid state mics into tube pres, and yet a million bajillion trillion more with solid state mics into solid state pres. Having a tube in a mic isn't about the harmonic distortion. There are tube mics that sound cleaner and stack better in a mix than solid state and vice versa. There are a ton of other extremely (if not more) important aspects to the sound of a mic than whether it has a tube in it.

it always seems to me like a lot of people associate tube gear with a milky, round, classic sound. Some old tube pres have this effect but most likely older music sounds this way to us because of transformers, tape, and a billion other things in the chain. An AKG C12 recorded directly into protools sounds bright as all hell!! Not what you would normally associate with "tubey"

In short: Don't worry about it. If you find mics you like the sound of and pres you like the sound of you'll find situations to use them together. Trust your own ears on the issue!

-marc goodman

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Where to have the Tube?

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