Advice for a mic and mic pre?

abelovesfun · Post by **abelovesfun** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:25 pm

I'm a sound artist that is looking to buy a better mic pre and mic. Right now I'm using a c3000 with an M-Audio Fast Track Pro. My main dissatisfaction is noise from the Fast Track pre-amps. I have to crank the gain to get a good signal. Should I just buy the mic pre and keep using the C3000? I usually just record one person talking.

My budget for this is between $1000 and $1500.
And I need either a pre with digital outs to go into the Fast Track Pro into my laptop, or an interface as well, I don't want to get an avalon just to get that mangled in the fast track

Thanks so much!

mattwhritenour · Post by **mattwhritenour** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:36 pm

You're probably better off getting a real nice preamp to start off like a great river or vintech, and worry about a mic and spdif converter later on.

David Piper · Post by **David Piper** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:41 am

I used two C3000's as my main vocal mics for five years or so, usually into an ART PRO MPA. I think they are okay vocal mics, although I did have different mastering and mixing people complain about a certain 3-4k phasy wierdness over the years. I was finally able to spring for a Charter Oak S538 which I'm very happy with. (Still holding on to the C3000's too, though!)

As far as pres, I was in a similar situation to you - A year ago I bought an API A2D to try and upgrade. I was hoping to use it a lot on vocals. The API, to my ears, is a fairly fast pre-amp, and I can hear that it has much more expensive transformers than the rest of my gear. It's very clear and accurate, but not at all tube-y, mellow, or flattering to vocals; sort of edge-y in that application actually. Afterwards I noticed a review by Larry Crane of the API 312 pre-amps and he said the same thing I was feeling: good pre-amp, awesome on drums, not always the first choice for vocals. I'm certainly holding on to it - I use it often with my sm81's, RE20, and sm57's, but it was not a great match for the C3000s on vocals.

If I was where you are again - using C3000's and trying to improve my signal path for vocals, I might do a Great River or something a little "slower" and "mellow".

darjama · Post by **darjama** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:36 am

The P-Solo is a nice clean quiet mono preamp. For spoken work, I'm assuming you don't need something with a lot of character. I like the Speck MicPre 5.0 as well.

You could add a Black Lion Audio sparrow to avoid the m-audio's analog circuits all together. I'm not sure that putting a mic pre into it's analog input will completely skip the gain stage. Maybe something like the mackie 400f would do the trick as an all-in-one unit. Or the apogee duet if you're a mac person.

...but are you sure it's your electronics that are adding most of the noise? It may just be the noise floor of your room. I'd try using a dynamic mic (a sm7 or re20 would be my first two choices, but a sm57/58 or a e906 would work well) and see if the lower sensitivity works to your benefit.

abelovesfun · Post by **abelovesfun** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:56 am

Thanks guys,
I have to consider the converter right off the bat, or the pre-amp is useless.
Are the ONYX pre-amps actually OK? the "specs" are fine, but I'm wary of these 8 channel matrix fire wire devices. It seems like for under a grand, they'd just be throwing garbage into a rack. Obviously I need to go down and listen for myself.
Getting an API would require getting a 500 series rack converter, yes? And if it's not the best for vocals then then it's not what I need, because that's pretty much what I do.
Is there a good pre amp out there, like an avalon or a UA or something that has a digital out?
One other thing that I didn't mention that I will have to buy this from a local music store, so some of the more obscure, direct-order options are out. Don't worry, it won't be from a chain, and the reasons are complicated...
Thanks everyone so much!
Am I right in thinking that throwing an awesome pre-amp into the line in's of the M-Audio will mess everything up? I usually operate on the idea that your chain is only as good as it's weakest link.

Michael.E · Post by **Michael.E** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:52 am

what kind of instruments are you looking to record?
how many simultaneous tracks?

mattwhritenour · Post by **mattwhritenour** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:04 am

There is the Universal Audio Solo610, Solo110, 710 Twinfinity preamps you can look into, their street price is %800 that leave 600-700 left for a converter.

dsw · Post by **dsw** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:31 pm

True Solo pre amp : $500
Heil P40 microphone : $325 (much better sound than the C3000)
Presonus Firebox interface : $300 (has digital input you can add expensive convertor later if needed)

total: $1125

I've used the True/PR40 combination and its very impressive.

The Presonus is a nice solid little box made out of metal with good tech support and real decent sound quality vs price.

dsw · Post by **dsw** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:33 pm

I usually just record one person talking.

what kind of instruments are you looking to record?
how many simultaneous tracks?

Might want to read the post a little more carefully....

leftofthedial · Post by **leftofthedial** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:41 pm

A C3000 is not a very good mic at all. For the same price (actually less) you could have an AT4033 which is an okay mic. Much higher output too, which probably means you could turn down your pre-amp a bit which might solve your noise problem.

dsw · Post by **dsw** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:50 pm

I disagree about the 4033. While I like it a lot for many things, voice over isn't one of them. I think the best buy for voice over work is the Heil PR40. It is designed for vocal clarity and intelligibility. It's dynamic so P pops don't bother it as much, and it doesn't need phantom power. It's rugged and good for a lot of other things as well (kick drum, guitar cabs) although abelovesfun said he was recording one person talking most of the time.
This is of course one man's opinion and the truly best thing to do is try different mics out until you find one you love.

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:16 pm

For someone just talking keep using the m-audio pre and get a warm dynamic mic like a EV N/D767 for $129

leftofthedial · Post by **leftofthedial** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:22 pm

dsw wrote:I disagree about the 4033.

I've never used a Heil, so I cannot argue you. I have owned both a c3000 and 4033 and can definitively say the 4033 is a much hotter mic and sounds much better on everything than an c3000. The Heil may be a better choice, but, again, I can only speak to what I know. I'm a big propenent of Dynamics myself especially at the 300 price point. An EV RE20 blows any cheap-o condenser away in my opinion. Perhaps I'd love to try out a heil myself? But since it seems more built in gain is in order for this post, I suggested a 4033 over an RE20.

mjau · Post by **mjau** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:33 pm

dsw wrote:I disagree about the 4033. While I like it a lot for many things, voice over isn't one of them.

Neither here nor there, but I like the 4033 on certain voices...namely my own southern nasality.

abelovesfun · Post by **abelovesfun** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:39 am

Thanks for the mic recommendations, I'll definitely listen to all those.
I got a suggestion to buy a Focusrite ISA one channel with the digital option. For me that's a lot to spend on one channel, but it would be good to get something nice.
In regards to the P-Solo, do you think going into a Firestation would be much better than going into my M-Audio. I have the older mLan Presonus Firestation with digital outs, but I've just had it around, I never thought about using it until now. I guess I didn't think it would be a large enough quality increase to lug around (I do a lot of location work interviewing people in their living rooms, etc.) Ideally I think I'm looking for a 1-2 channel pre-amp with digital outs. Right now it seems like my 3 best options are:
the focusrite option and not buying a new mic
the p-sound pre amp with a mic and me lugging around my old firestation
the Mackie option with a new mic

Thanks for all your help, and I welcome new suggestions!

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