American Made Ribbon Mics

nick_a · Post by **nick_a** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:42 pm

i think it's pretty cool.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:53 pm

superaction80 wrote:
ott0bot wrote:
I'm kinda thinking Shure isn't the best fit. They have so much prosumer stuff on the market, and some of their stuff is great, bost most of it is just ok. Hopefully they keep the integrity of the company intact as stated. My guess is that as a division of Shure they'll have better buying power on components so cost of production may go down. However knowing they a mega-retailer the MSRP will go up despite this. Curious to see what happens. Hopefully I'm wrong and I can afford one of thier awesome ribbon mics.
There are at least three mics in their line (sm57, sm58, and sm7b) that carry an insanely low profit margin (around 10%). In the case of the 57 and 58, it may be that Shure just doesn't want to break the $100 barrier. Compare those margins to other brands and you'll be hard pressed to find another company that's giving their mics away like that. You go anywhere from Samson (in the 35% range) to Electrovoice (in the mid to high teens, sometimes above 20%) and you'll see companies making more than Shure on their popular and affordable lines.
10% is a joke. Maybe on that Gibson Custom Shop piece that's been in the store for 5 years. But for mics under $400? Especially the all-time most popular dynamics, which happen to have some pretty robust builds, which means they're not going to get replaced as often? Shure may be pro-sumer, but it seems to me that they're pro-sumer for "all the right reasons".

Generally a manufacturer doesn't tell it's actual production prices to it's customers. Are you saying they have a 10% profit margin from the cost to the $99 retail price....or saying the actual cost to manufactur the mic is only 10% less than the price they sell in to a retailer? If the retailer is only making 10% profit...that's a greedy company. If they are getting it 10% above cost of production thats an awesome company.

How did you find out these numbers? Just curious.

also a general question...
As far as American made ribbon mics go. How much of the parts are actually american made? I know alot of companies are american assembled, with chinese or european parts. Like some of the Cascade stuff, for example. And how much does it matter?

I know some of the smaller gear companies like FMR and Summit bend over backwards to make their customers happy. Plus they are affordable. I know there was a post about it. Anyone have good experience with Royer, AEA or Crowley & Tripp?

Post by **TapeOpLarry** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:23 pm

"Anyone have good experience with Royer, AEA or Crowley & Tripp?"

Royer - always
AEA - yup
Crowley & Tripp - don't own any but my friends have said good things about dealing with them.

Jay Reynolds · Post by **Jay Reynolds** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:35 pm

ott0bot wrote: Generally a manufacturer doesn't tell it's actual production prices to it's customers. Are you saying they have a 10% profit margin from the cost to the $99 retail price....or saying the actual cost to manufactur the mic is only 10% less than the price they sell in to a retailer? If the retailer is only making 10% profit...that's a greedy company. If they are getting it 10% above cost of production thats an awesome company.

How did you find out these numbers? Just curious.

I know some of the smaller gear companies like FMR and Summit bend over backwards to make their customers happy. Plus they are affordable. I know there was a post about it. Anyone have good experience with Royer, AEA or Crowley & Tripp?

The 10% margin is what the retailer makes. The mic costs the store about $90 and they sell it for $99.99. I know this because I used to sell them. Again, every other mic I sold had a higher margin, especially EV and Samson. The low end AKG stuff was profitable too, as was MXL.
I'm not sure that Shure is "greedy" by keeping the margin at 10%. They could let retailers sell the mics for more, but then Shure and the retailers would be sticking it to the consumer.
BTW-FMR's margins are nothing to write home about. Last time I checked (which wasn't recently) the RNP had a margin around 12%.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:33 pm

superaction80 wrote: The 10% margin is what the retailer makes. The mic costs the store about $90 and they sell it for $99.99. I know this because I used to sell them. Again, every other mic I sold had a higher margin, especially EV and Samson. The low end AKG stuff was profitable too, as was MXL.
I'm not sure that Shure is "greedy" by keeping the margin at 10%. They could let retailers sell the mics for more, but then Shure and the retailers would be sticking it to the consumer.
BTW-FMR's margins are nothing to write home about. Last time I checked (which wasn't recently) the RNP had a margin around 12%.

no i hear ya...maybe greedy isn't the right word it's a standard business practice. I'm just saying, a company that sells you something with very little profit margin is one of two things...hooking you up or ripping you off. Companies that price lock products like Digidesign and Apple want to ensure they products are being sold above a certain price....and generally aren't giving the retailer a great price either. So having a 10% profit for the retailer is aweful.

Typical retailers want to make at least 40-60% profit otherwise when you include shipping and all the time and money for a retail operation, it isn't worth it to sell a bunch of items at such low mark ups. They usually only do this to stay competative and have them in stock for thier reputation. Also, most companies get a better deal in volume...so who know how much Guitar Center is actually paying for them and still selling them at the same $99 dollar price. But they also don't allow you to use coupons on Shure products.....another sign of a low profit margin.

Bassically....Shure is a business....maybe a good one...obviously a fairly successful one. I just hope they do a good job, as I stated in the original post.

Sorry for the rant

Archmart · Post by **Archmart** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:23 pm

Hey Hey!

Knowing a lot of people here at Shure, I have to say it's really a small, personal company at heart that's still in it for a love of the craft and I think this is very exciting news. I bet they've got just enough corporate muscle to do some really great things (again) with ribbons and yet they're not so big that they only care about the bottom line. A friend's mom was the last one at Shure who knew how to hang a ribbon until she retired. It's nice to think that they'll get back into that tradition. I've got a 300, though I don't use it much, opting for my R84s or my 74b most of the time, instead.

And speaking of American Made Ribbons, I've had this Rauland W-1247 art deco masterpiece on display for years and never been able to find much reference to it online. Now I just saw one go for $2000.00 on Ebay today. Freakshow. I had no idea what I had.

Archmart

getreel · Post by **getreel** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:09 pm

I like every Shure mic I own. The SM7 is flat out awesome on so many things and so is the lowly 57. I'm also a fan of their newer LDC KSM series. Good usable stuff and the quality is great. I'm hopeful AND optimistic about this development.

Gebo · Post by **Gebo** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:38 pm

I hope they continue their advancements, and I hope he keeps the blog going!

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:29 pm

Call me globalist, but I'll be darned if Shure picking up some ribbon models won't create a situation where they are being manufactured in greater quantity and won't be more affordable new and used. Currently your options for ribbon mics are:

Chinese sweat shop
Boutique
Antique
Beyerdynamic
(am I missing something?)

Personally, I think having another mid sized company (like Beyer) currently manufacturing reliable ribbon mics to be a good thing.

cdixon6 · Post by **cdixon6** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:46 am

I think it's great. This may mean I'll be able to afford one soon (college student).
I love ribbons. I wish that other comanies could afford some advanced R&D. Besides Roswellite, there really haven't been any huge advancements in ribbon mic technology for a long time.
I want to see a Shure rival to the R-121. We just used one for a mic demo the other day, awesome sound.

darjama · Post by **darjama** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:06 am

Doesn't Shure do a chunk of it's manufacturing in Mexico? Not that it bothers me if they do.

Archmart · Post by **Archmart** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:42 am

Hey Hey!

That's the point. "Roswellite" is from NEW Mexico.

Archmart

Jay Reynolds · Post by **Jay Reynolds** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:36 am

Archmart wrote:Hey Hey!

That's the point. "Roswellite" is from NEW Mexico.

Archmart

You mean it arrives to us "via" Roswell NM.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:48 am

superaction80 wrote:
Archmart wrote:Hey Hey!

That's the point. "Roswellite" is from NEW Mexico.

Archmart
You mean it arrives to us "via" Roswell NM.

When I heard Roswellite was made from carbon nanotube technology, I figured it was pretty much a perfect name.

tonewoods · Post by **tonewoods** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:03 pm

djimbe wrote:Let's not forget that the Shure Bros. made some pretty nice ribbon microphones in years past. It's not new for them.

How 'bout an SM33 reissue??

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American Made Ribbon Mics

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