Starting out, need advice...

navigate · Post by **navigate** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:40 pm

I'm apologizing in advance for maybe asking some obvious questions. I'm an independent, sort of professional musician about to make another record, but now planning to record and mix it myself instead of booking a studio. Mostly for learning and personal/creative experimentation, but the record is also going to be released. I don't have a whole lot of experience but ears I can at least feel confident about.

I'm a female folk vocalist/writer with a lot of dynamic range (one song can go from extremely quiet/gentle but still have some pretty bold/punchy/gospely moments) - options are borrowing an akg perception 4-something series (or maybe some other good-ish quality mic) but I am sort of considering buying a mxl v67g or two - I read all the posts that mentioned them but it seemed like most people were using them for bg vocals or drum overheads or the like... with mics I've tried out in the past, my voice always seems to blend with the odd mics and not the great fancy mics, so...

I would probably be using it with all digital gear by choice. I'm also going to be layering a shit ton of vocal harmonies - people have mentioned the mxls get muddy or weird when used like this, has anyone used the 67 for something like this? will the mic matter more if i'm burying songs in vocal layers like this?

also, all I'm using at the moment is an 828mkII, with a mic like a v67 would it be worth looking into better pres than what are built in to the 828, or not? with a better (ie more expensive mic...) would that make it worth it?

thanks

aitikin · Post by **aitikin** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:53 pm

I would recommend a Rode NT-1 over a v67 if you can afford it. I haven't used this mic much but I like it more than any MXL I've ever used. That being said, I've got a buddy who used to use MXLs (until he started working at someone else's studio).

The AKG isn't a terrible mic, isn't anywhere near their best quality one though. If you can, try it, see if you like it. I think you can still find Perception 400s sometimes and 420s.

I feel that a greater difference would be made by using better mics than the MXLs or Perception would be more beneficial than upgrading the pres past the 828.

Do you have anywhere we can hear your stuff and perhaps the mics it was recorded with? It also might be worth your time to book a studio, bring your 828 in and try out some of the mics there and see what works best for what you want. You might even be able to learn a thing or two about mic placement from the engineer (more crucial than mic choice in most cases)...

As an aside, you might not want to refer to the MXL as a "67" because most of the time when someone in the industry refers to a 67, they usually mean a Neumann u67, at least in my experiences.

Good luck!

LazarusLong · Post by **LazarusLong** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:11 am

aitikin wrote:I feel that a greater difference would be made by using better mics than the MXLs or Perception would be more beneficial than upgrading the pres past the 828.

The Perception line is AKG's response to the likes of MXL. To me, these things are generally condenser microphone shaped objects. There's tons and tons of great mic options in the $300-$500 range. Check out Shure, Audio Technica, and BLUE. Though not "boutique" quality, the 828's pres and converters are a solid solution and should carry you pretty far.

CedarSound · Post by **CedarSound** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:58 am

I'd check out the Shure ksm28 or an AT4033 in the lower price range.
If it doesn't need to be a condenser, then the ever-popular SM7B would be my first choice. The only thing is you need a lot of preamp gain for that mic. You would probably need an additional gain stage to crank it up before going into your 828. For stacking tracks though, it's my first choice.

E.Bennett · Post by **E.Bennett** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:10 pm

go to a local shop and try out mics. if they don't have one you like in your price range, book an hour at a studio. explain what you're looking for and hopefully they will have some mic options that fit your budget that you can demo.

SkylerT87 · Post by **SkylerT87** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:47 pm

RM wrote:go to a local shop and try out mics. if they don't have one you like in your price range, book an hour at a studio. explain what you're looking for and hopefully they will have some mic options that fit your budget that you can demo.

Nice Idea. Another to would be doing all your work yourself but booking studio time to do vocals. It might be worth spending a couple hundred to use a really nice mic, pre, compressor. And if you go in really prepared it probably wont take long.

Vocals are something that can make or break a recording so just be careful.

As far as doing it yourself, check out Avantone mics, they do a great job for the price. I have personal compared most there line of mics with high end studio mics, and for the price they stand there ground.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:30 pm

I think you're right when you suspect that it's not a good idea to cheap out on your mic. If you don't get it right at the mic, nothing else will work out either. There are lots of other ways to economize, but a bad mic is usually a non-starter in my experience.

dsw · Post by **dsw** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:45 pm

How much time do you have? Do you love gadgets and figuring out how they work?
Do you ever hear someone else's album and think, I love those songs but why is everything so muddy sounding? Do you have someone to call when things aren't working in the studio?

The most often heard phrase in a recording studio is: "why don't I have sound?" It can be VERY frustrating when you don't know or can't figure out the answer. Its happened to all of us.

I have two pieces of advice.

1) Make sure you enjoy being your own engineer before you spend much money.

2) Don't buy Chinese mics. (I'm going to get slammed here....) buy German, Japanese, Latvian, Australian, or USA but avoid China. They sound better and they hold their value WAY better.

beefy · Post by **beefy** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:31 am

Instead of recording your own album and getting addicted to studio gear you might want to consider heroin. Its cheaper and more fun.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:25 pm

Oh, come on guys... it's not that bad.

Still, it's probably not a great idea to go into this with really high expectations. Might make more sense to a) screw around for a while and see if this is for you, or b) make sure you keep backups of all your core tracks so that if things go horribly wrong you can still pay someone else to mix them for you.

Semi-professional can be a scary place, where bad choices can permanently bog down a career.

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:09 pm

Get an Oktava 319 off ebay for cheap. they are great mics that are pretty versatile.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:03 pm

Or better still, have Michael Joly mod one up. I'm still dizzy with glee over mine.

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:43 pm

InvalidInk wrote:Get an Oktava 319 off ebay for cheap. they are great mics that are pretty versatile.

+1. I got mine on ebay for $82. It's one of my most used mics, and it's stock. The fact that I can get it modded in the future is an added bonus, I'll be able to have a much better mic for less than it would cost to get a whole new mic that's the same quality, but still have something nice to use as is since I don't have the cash for the mods yet.

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:07 pm

Exactly, right when you think you are out growing it, you can get it modded and make it totally badass. It's great stock too though.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:08 pm

Actually, that's a good point. One of the big pains-in-the-neck about self-recording is that you outgrow your gear about as fast as you learn to use it, at first at least. It can leave you with a bunch of great performances of tracks that you aren't satisfied with due to technical limitations.

I'd say that songwriting, performance, and engineering chops are all of about equal weight in self-recording. Self-recording opens up a whole new area for things to go wrong. Or right, I imagine.

But I'd say it took me almost as long to get to where I had OK engineering chops as it did to get to where I had OK songwriting chops. And I find it hard to keep all balls in the air at once, as well. Usually, if I'm getting good at performing, my engineering chops are getting rusty, and vice versa. And if that's not happening, I'm not getting any gigs because I'm too busy with the other three things.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from learning to self-record, but getting "good" is a long, slow process.

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Starting out, need advice...

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