starting almost from scratch...

[brinogordon]

I've been messing around with recording gear for 15 years now, but I'm thinking of starting to do some light commercial stuff - tracking & mixing local bands, recording barbershop and choirs on-site, etc. The idea is to build some skills and rep and see where it goes.

So...after my last ebay selling spree, I'm left with a pair of Event TR6 monitors, a Roland VS-1680, a 57 and a borrowed CAD-200 & D-112, plus cables and stands. I don't want to drop over $3K.

I have a laptop that should work with protools LE. I'm thinking of the Digi003 rack + factory. That's would give 8xlr inputs for about $1k. Then a matched pair of AT-4041s for choir/overheads, a couple more 57s, a Rode NT-2 and a 4033 for vocals. And maybe a Beyer m88 for guitars/snare.

My questions are...anything obvious I'm missing? Also, should I try to get some nice preamps to put between the mics and the Digi003?

Any other thoughts/comments/alternatives are welcome. Thanks!

[Ryan Silva]

Don't forget headphones, and headphone management.

Not very exciting, I know

[brinogordon]

good point...I've got a set of AKG K240s and Grado SR80s, but sold my headphone amp. Need to get a new amp and a few sets of cans. Thanks

[Ryan Silva]

http://www.mercenary.com/momforyohesp.html

I really have to say that these cans are some of the best studio headphones for the buck.

Loud
Tough
mono > stereo switchable

[aitikin]

Headphones are definitely key. When pricing, never forget extra cabling. It should go without saying but I often forget anyway .

The Digi003 works perfectly fine for most applications, and you always have BLA ready to mod away when you go on vacation. I personally don't like PT, but that's a different argument altogether.

Just warning you, everyone I know who has m88s always wants more. I know I've only seen them used once and that was when a studio near me closed down.

[Jeff White]

Right now, Black Lion IS NOT modifying the Digi003 rack + factory. I don't know why, as they do the 002 and 003 Rack. Get in touch with them for details.

One question: how many simultaneous tracks do you need?

If you go with Pro Tools, why not grab something that Black Lion can modifiy (002 or 003 Rack), then add a Sytek MPX-4Aii (3-4 Burr-Brown). This will give you a nice selection of mic preamps (Black Lion rebuilds the stock Digi mic preamps), great clocking, and a solid base to build on as you make money from gigs. I see Digi 002s for like $500 all of the time and Syteks go for like $600 to $700 used here and on ebay. Mine was $600.

Also, for a cheap and decent preamp that can be modified later, the Presonus MP20 is like $200 all over the place these days. I also recommend the EH 12AY7 preamp. Just extra sounds.

Mics... check out the Naiant stuff for decent mics on the cheap. AT4033 (I read it all of the time) or look for a used AT4050, 4040, or 4047. Or AKG 414B/ULS. Grab a pair of RUSSIAN MADE Oktava MK-012s and have OktavaMod modify them later on. (mine sound amazing!!!, thanks MJ!))

Headphone amp...others may shoot this down but I have been using a Behringer 4-channel headphone preamp since 2004 and it works fine today. Never had an issue with mine and it's been all over the place. And then headphones... More Me is good enough for the talent, but maybe another set of K240s as well just in case.

Mic stands...

You will want to get a rack to put this stuff. Something portable. I used to use an 8-space rack for remote gigs but decided to scale things down to a few 4-space racks to save my back.

Pick up an RNC or a dbx 160 and 163x or Symetrix 501 so you have some compression in case you need it going into the box. $125-$250 used. I paid $45 for my 163x.

Learn to build your own cables and order stuff through Redco. I seriously save like $20-$30 a cable over what I used to buy. It cost me like $16 per 20' mic cable now and they sound better than anything I used to own that cost me $40-$50. Save money to buy another 163x!

I'll stop here. Hit me up with any questions!

Jeff

[kingmetal]

on the headphone front:

I grabbed a set of these per some TOMB recommendations: http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=HD202PKG

Not as burly as the Mercenary cans but man oh man do I like those 202s. I'm a little biased since I practically live inside of a pair of HD280s, but to my ears the 202s are insanely good for the price. Absolutely great artist cans, long cables, good isolation and very comfortable. I haven't broken any of mine yet, but they aren't built like tanks.

[trodden]

on the headphone front:

I grabbed a set of these per some TOMB recommendations: http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=HD202PKG

Not as burly as the Mercenary cans but man oh man do I like those 202s. I'm a little biased since I practically live inside of a pair of HD280s, but to my ears the 202s are insanely good for the price. Absolutely great artist cans, long cables, good isolation and very comfortable. I haven't broken any of mine yet, but they aren't built like tanks.

word.. i've had a set of 5 of those for over 2 years now and not one dead yet! and they sound decent!

[thegeek]

Right now, Black Lion IS NOT modifying the Digi003 rack + factory. I don't know why, as they do the 002 and 003 Rack. Get in touch with them for details.

Where did you hear that? I got a quote from them a few months back for one... I don't remember how much but I would contact them directly to be sure.

[jgimbel]

Yes yes yes on the HD202s. After seeing them recommended here I got a pair and they're awesome. They're bass-heavy definitely but after learning how to work with them they've become my favorite headphones I have (granted I haven't gotten the HD280s I'm wanting yet). The bass is a bit much but you can hear it clearly. I tend to mix and rely on them a bit for bass (my room isn't treated properly right now), so I'll get the bass loud and having a great sound with them, then switch to another pair of headphones I know well and judge the level of the bass from that. It hasn't taken long to get to know exactly how overdone the bass is so the phones just become really nice to work with and let you hear things you can't hear on all phones. Very nice. They're definitely not the most rugged. I accidentally stepped on the (REALLY long - convenient!) cord as I was standing up and it yanked the outer black part of the cable out of the little piece where it goes into the phones. Just a bit and didn't damage the wires at all, but they're not robust wires. Definitely not what I'd call fragile though, far, far from a deal breaker.

[brinogordon]

Thanks for all the info. I wasn't aware of the black lion mods, very cool.

[brinogordon]

So after the helpful advice here and some soul searching, I think I'm going to send back my unopened Digi 003 Rack + Factory and score a used Digi 002 from eBay. Then I can do the cheaper BLA mod and it will only be about $200 more than I paid for the 003R+. I'll score some cheaper pre's to cover the other 4 inputs until I can get something nicer.

The only downside is I was ready to install the software and start playing around, now I'm pushed out a couple months...anybody have a BLA Mod 002 for sale?

[roygbiv]

Save yourself some cash. Skip the Digi/Pro Tools -trap.

Get Reaper for $60.

Get a used PC to dedicate for recording only. $200.

Get one or two used PCI-based 8 in/ 8 out cards (two will get you 16 channels). Older Layla 24 or Aark24's can be had for ~ $100/card.

There you go. Your entire DAW recording set-up for under $500. And with Reaper, you get free upgrades for ~2 years (or version cycles, I forget).

Just my cheopo 2cents worth.

[nortstudio]

Remember that if you opt for the "moreme" headphones from Mercenary, you will absolutely need headphone extenders. The attached cable is VERY short (an oversight that surprised me considering the thoughtfulness that seemed to go into these cans) and will need to be extended, unless the player is sitting DIRECTLY next to the box.