hunting for a new ride cymbal - not too washy-not too bright

[joninc]

hey guys - i am hunting for a different ride cymbal for the studio - something that will contrast my K 22 custom dark and 21 Avedis sweet ride.

i love the sound of the ride on the song "WHAT ABOUT US" - at 1:33 - http://www.myspace.com/dougpaisley

it's got a nice stick definition but not harsh or biting and the wash isn't too strong or long. any ideas what type of cymbals would give me a sound like that?

i love vintage/darker/vibey stuff - and i record digitally so i want something with a rounder top end - not too bright..

[edotd]

check out http://www.cymbalsonly.com/
they sell Bosphorus cymbals (turkish handmade)

every cymbal has it's own audio sample, good luck with your search!

[joninc]

can you recommend one based on what i am looking for?

[Snarl 12/8]

I'd PM garages and send him the link to that song. He can probably tell you make, model, year and what kind of stick it's being hit with. Not to mention size of the room, mic, pre, comp, etc. that it was recorded with.

I believe that cymbal site that was linked to has sound samples of all the cymbals they're selling. I know there's a site out there that does that. Not, the make/model of cymbal but the actual one you'd get if you hit "add to cart."

I bet if you emailed the people that run that site the link they could recommend something and send you a sample.

Finally, have you contacted that band and asked them what it is? That might be doable. Completely take the guesswork out of it.

My first thought hearing it, was that it was an older Zildjian, like an A or something a tad brighter. But hit with either a nylon tip *shudder* or a brush or something. Something material harder than wood, but it's just so damn quiet which is why I don't think stick when I hear that sound. Like hit with brush that's not fully fanned out. I hate to say it, but a lot of that sound is the touch that guy has. I feel like my Paiste Prototype ride could get a sound kinda like that if it was struck and mic'd up the right way.

[joninc]

i'd love it if garges would chime in.

def sounds like a stick or maybe hotrod to me.

[justinf]

Garges is the man here, although he may steer you towards Paiste.

I have an Istanbul ride that's drilled 2x with 1 rivet that I find complements my various Zildjians very well. . . dark, nice ping, crashes well with tasty decay.

[Gregg Juke]

If you are looking for stick definition but not a lot of "ping," and you are already using wood tips (as opposed to plastic; makes a big difference), you could try finding an old Zildjian Earth Ride (tm). No lathe grooves, no hand-hammering (a smooth-textured cymbal). Pretty heavy, very funky looking, and a unique sound (on the darker side of well-defined).

I'm pretty sure they don't make them anymore (but I don't buy a lot of new cymbals, so you could check the Zildj. catalog or website). Otherwise, it's ebay, craigslist, garage sales and dumpster-diving. But if you find one, they are really great and you'll be happy that you looked.

GJ

[Gregg Juke]

BTW, just checked... They are still making them, but they're almost $300. You might still want to look for a used one.

GJ

[Snarl 12/8]

For god's sake, don't buy a cymbal that you haven't played for yourself without a very liberal return policy.

[cgarges]

Hi guys! Just got back from the Second Annual Recording Summit at Chris Mara's Welcome to 1979 Studio in Nashville. Totally fun!

Anyway, on this particular topic...


There's no way that's a brush. It's also HIGHLY unlikely that it's a Paiste and the overtones sound much more complex than an Earth Ride to me. Also sounds like wood-tipped sticks to my ears.

Sounds like a darkish, trashy kind of cymbal. It could be an old K or POSSIBLY one of those old As that thinks it's a K or something weirder that happens to sound like that. A lot of times you can luck out and find some crappy, inexpensive cymbal that's got a sound like that, but if you're going for something very specific, the search could take you a long time. You're FAR more likely to luck into a cool, weird, cheap cymbal that happens to sound good than you are likely to find one that has a specific kind of sound.

In modern, purchasable terms, many of the Istanbul cymbals might get you going in that direction. You'd have to check out some specific models to see what's close to your ears. I've heard a few excellent Dream Bliss cymbals, which are relatively inexpensive and have a similar, albiet slightly less complex sound, to the vintage K vibe. None of those that I've played have the feel and low volume of a vintage K (pretty much none of the modern cymbals I've played do), but you might be able to find a reasonably vibey cymbal with a tone that's in the ballpark. There are some weirder cymbal manufacturers that make interesting dark, trashy cymbals (Hammerax, Wuhan, etc.) and you might find something that you like from one of those manufacturers, too. I just played a GORGEOUS gigantic (24" maybe?) Hammerax ride cymbal at Fork's in Nashville that I will forever regret not bringing back with me. (Come on, Two-Week Booking!)

For the reasonably curious, I HIGHLY recommend checking out www.mycymbal.com for mail order cymbals. It's a website run by the guys at the Memphis Drum Shop in Memphis, TN. That is one of the best drum shops on the planet and everyone there is SUPER-NICE. They have literally thousands of cymbals in stock and hundreds of those are right there on their website for you to hear. The great thing about that website is that each cymbal on there has a specific code (not just the model number), so that if you listen to four different Paiste Giant Beat 18" cymbals and you like the third one that you heard, you can buy that specific cymbal (the third one) based on the code. It's pretty awesome and about the closest possibly thing you can get to listening to the cymbal in person.

Hope this helps!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[joninc]

thanks for that - i know that i am not likely to find a cymbal that sounds identical. i am really just trying to find something in that ballpark - particularly in terms of the sound of the attack and amount of wash.

could you speculate on the size? my 22 and 21 rides seem to have lots of wash (in terms of volume and length) so i wonder if this is a smaller size ride to begin with - a 20"?

would a K 20" dark ride be in this ballpark?

i had a friend over tracking with a bunch of nice old A's (60's thin stuff) but they had tons more wash to them. less stick definition etc..

[Nate Dort]

For the reasonably curious, I HIGHLY recommend checking out www.mycymbal.com for mail order cymbals.

2x. When I was outfitting my studio kit last year, I went through a few days of listening to samples there before I settled on my choices. For me, as a non-drummer, it was like a crash-course (pun intended) in different cymbal types.

[cgarges]

It's hard to tell with it so far back in the mix, but I wouldn't think that it's particularly small. I've heard 22" cymbals that sound like that. I would guess a 20" or 22".

Chris Garges
Charlote, NC

[Galen Ulrich Elfert]

Your description sounds a lot like what I was looking for when I picked up my Zildjian K Constantinople 20", and I've been really happy with it. It's thin and not too bright, and it doesn't build up a huge wash, but it's got a beautiful detailed sound. I think they're fairly common. You can probably find one to play around with.

[Snarl 12/8]

Come on Garges! Mic, distance, angle, Pre and Comp ratio please. Oh, and what did the drummer have for breakfast. No, scratch that, what did the studio intern have for breakfast.