Metallica In Studio - Info

lionaudio · Post by **lionaudio** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:15 am

It really all depends on the style of metal being played. I record death metal in a completely different way than doom metal. Faster metal needs a smaller room for drums. It's almost all close mic'd and generally one mono room mic. Guitars are done through smaller amps. Ribbon of choice on the grille, 57, or 421 on the grille as well. Bass is usually DI'd. Reamped if I need it, which I usually don't for fast stuff. For slower metal, I go for the big room. Multiple room mics. Guitars are done through bigger amps with a close mic, and an ambient mic usually where the guitarist would stand in front of his amp at about chest height. Bass is DI'd and also mic'd in a smaller room. I also layer synths under guitars for slow metal to give it more balls. You would never notice it, but it is there and it makes guitars bigger than life. For fast metal, I usually layer samples of drums under the real drums for click, unless I'm being all purist about stuff and then I'll spend a week eq'ing the crap out of everything. I usually never eq guitars except for sometimes a low cut if I don't need the low end. I prefer to pick the best mics and pre and spend alot of time on tone before we ever hit record. Something else that is especially true of metal is that I never listen to the guitars coming from the amp. If you only listen through your monitors you don't have to go through the whole process of "that's the best tone ever!" then going back to your control room and hearing total crap. Keep the amp in the control room, and the cab in the live room and you'll save yourself alot of headaches

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:17 am

farview wrote:The idea behind recording the guitars dark and adding so much in the mix is, if you run the guitar amp really bright, the speaker breakup can get really spikey sounding. If the speakers are naturally breaking up with lows and mids, the breakup creates a smooth high end content that sounds nice when you EQ it up.

you mentioned that in another post awhile back and i thought it was a really good idea. gonna have to try that out.

so from what you guys have posted it seems like you're not really having to do a bunch of crazy shit to get the guitars and bass happening in the mix. i suppose the battle is just getting the drums to cut through the wall of distortion.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:24 am

lionaudio wrote:Guitars are done through smaller amps.

that's interesting. i just assumed everyone always used 4x12s. so you'll use combos/1x12s for fast stuff? more definition than with a 4x12?

farview · Post by **farview** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:35 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: you mentioned that in another post awhile back and i thought it was a really good idea. gonna have to try that out.

It's the same reason why a lot of people will use ribbon mics for metal guitars. The soft high end works better and is more controllable in the mix. It's easy for deaf guitar players with their BBE's set on 'kill' to have the guitar sound way too trebley. Sometimes you have to back them off of that. It's pretty easy if you don't have the guitarist in the same room with the amp. I have him standing in the control room with the Urei 813s blasting him in the face. Sometimes I EQ what he is hearing if I have to, but what gets recorded is straight off the preamp.

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:so from what you guys have posted it seems like you're not really having to do a bunch of crazy shit to get the guitars and bass happening in the mix. i suppose the battle is just getting the drums to cut through the wall of distortion.

That's not a big trick really. The drums tend to have a larger-than-life thing about them. So they have exaggerated top and bottom and are generally compressed to death. They just have to be louder than the guitars, the mastering limiters will make them push the guitars out of the way.

Generally, a real sounding drumset isn't going to work against a raging wall of guitars. You really can't get away with a Glyn Johns setup. You have to mic everything, EQ and compress the crap out of it.

IF you check out some of the sound clips on my site, most of the hard rock and metal stuff was done with the same approach. It doesn't all sound the same because the music/bands/instruments were different, but most of the guitar sounds were recorded with the 57/421 combo. (a lot of them used my 4x12 cabinet) there are a couple that were Pods and one that was a Boss floor board through a clean amp.

http://www.farviewrecording.com/html/sound_clips.html

nobody, really · Post by **nobody, really** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:35 pm

some really awesome info here. and thanks for sharing those clips, farview. though apparently on samples 2 and 4 you were recording a 2-string guitar? Interesting.

farview · Post by **farview** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:06 pm

nobody, really wrote:though apparently on samples 2 and 4 you were recording a 2-string guitar? Interesting.

Why do you say that? Sample 4 is all over the place, the two rhythm parts are different inversions of the same chords, both pedalling off the same low note. It's most obvious in the bridge.

Sample 2 was a track done by Jason bitner (Shadows Fall), Dave Elefson (Megadeth), Ripper Owens (Judas Priest, Yngwie Malmsteen) and Tristan Grigsby (Daitribe) to raise money for the Little Kids Rock Charity in Dimebag Darrell's honor. Would using something other than root-fifth chords make the song more valid?

nobody, really · Post by **nobody, really** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:27 pm

Ouch. Well, no need to get your panties all in a bundle over it, I was just having a poke at some cheesy metal. Incidentally it matters not, to me, whether The Lord Jesus Christ Himself was playing it. Also, it doesn't diminish in the slightest my appreciation of both cheesy metal and of your sharing of your recording knowledge.

farview · Post by **farview** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:53 pm

nobody, really wrote:Ouch. Well, no need to get your panties all in a bundle over it, I was just having a poke at some cheesy metal. Incidentally it matters not, to me, whether The Lord Jesus Christ Himself was playing it. Also, it doesn't diminish in the slightest my appreciation of both cheesy metal and of your sharing of your recording knowledge.

Sarcasm and this sort of 'poking fun' really doesn't work in print unless you know the person typing it. My appologies.

However, catagorizing any of this as 'cheesy' doesn't really help. It just makes you seem like a snob. I'm assuming that you are trying to be amusing instead of offensive...

nobody, really · Post by **nobody, really** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:21 am

ah, you're right. probably should cease my sad attempts at wit, and let this thread resume being interesting. probably shouldn't post on forums after a couple beers, either.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:23 am

let's get this thing back on topic and resume celebrating/making fun of metallica.

i've been polling people as to their favorite metallica record. the kid at the 7-11 downstairs said, without hesitation, "the black album". he then added "or kill 'em all", which i thought was pretty interesting.

my bass player said, without hesitation, "and justice for all".

my dingbat singer said "um......the enter sandman one?" i'm pretty sure she's not heard the first four.

bass player and i agreed that 'puppets' is inarguably the "best" one, but he still likes justice and i think my fav might well be kill 'em all.

who here is old? who was a teenager back in the 80s? was kill 'em all a complete mindbender for you like it was for me?

suppositron · Post by **suppositron** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:56 am

Uh, I was born in the 80's. My favorite was always And Justice... but now I'm leaning more towards Ride The Lightning.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:02 pm

born in the 80s. sigh. now i really feel old. GET OFF MY GODDAMN LAWN!

farview · Post by **farview** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:41 pm

I was a teenager in the 80's, but I lived in a place where you really didn't get a chance to hear anything non-mainstream. Ride the Lightning was the first Metallica I heard. It was a game changer. I discovered Kill'em All later, but still prefered RtL and MoP.

Music-wise, my favorite is MOP. Production-wise, my favorite is the black album.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:50 pm

You are old in age...but young in spirit.

I was born in the 81. When I was 7 I begged my mom to buy me Master of Puppets on cassette. She begrudgingly did one find saturday. I jammed the heck out of that sucker on my radio shack walkmen while walking to school, driving anywhere or at home in my room. I think used to rewind Sanitarium over and over and over. And Orion was what inspired me to start playing bass a few years later. My older brother got Ride the Lightning and Kill 'Em All on CD and we thought it was good, but puppets always had my vote. Though the thrash nature of Kill 'Em All did impress/frighten me enough to require repeat listeing.

Then in 5th grade, the janitor at my elementary school (who later went on to open a music store and build custom guitars) used to work for a cd pressing plant gave me a CD press without a case of And Justice for All (and some Joe Satriani crapola). This CD blew mind mind at first, then the video for One pretty much solidfied it as my favorite. Then I started rocking the cassette of Puppets again, and it all came flooding back...and puppets just couldn't be denied. This was all right around the release of the Black album. Which I ate up like orange slicers at a soccer game. However, I felt that there was something different about this record. I started to grow leary.

After that I moved onto more Grunge stuff, and starting listening to more 70's rock and psych stuff, thanks to my Dad's record collection and hi-fi (which I now own!). Wish You Were Here, Animals, Physical Graffiti, LA Woman, America, etc. I pretty mucy stopped listening to metal all together, almost in direct response to the Black album...and I wasn't really sure why at the time. I haven't sense bought a metal album, sans maybe a Secret Chiefs III record(if that even counts)...or a Vemon record(sorta).

About 10 or so years later I though about it and I realized why. I hate the songwriting on the Black album. Lyrics, riffs, and wank solos. To me it just sounds awful. I can't stand listening to it. And that may be due in part to how overplayed it was (and still is) in rural Nebraska where I grew up. But seriously, can't stand it. Looking back, I see the importance the first four albums playing in my musical life, especailly puppets...but I had no real desire to buy them or listen to them until this thread.

.........and thats the rest of the story.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:10 pm

farview wrote:I was a teenager in the 80's, but I lived in a place where you really didn't get a chance to hear anything non-mainstream. Ride the Lightning was the first Metallica I heard. It was a game changer.

yeah, same here.

so it's 1984, i'm like 14, listening to maiden, priest, def leppard and motley crue (i'll still stick up for maiden and leppard). i read the review of RTL in kerrang and thought "i should really check these guys out".

i bought RTL (on megaforce, pre-elektra. still have it) and the first WASP record the same day. got home, put the WASP record on first. terrible. didn't make it through the first side.

put on RTL. tinny acoustic intro plays. i think "yeah, haha guys, get to the rock."

the riff comes in and i swear i turned and looked at my speakers all bug eyed. just like HOLY SHIT. so much faster and heavier than anything else i'd heard. by the time i got to 'for whom the bell tolls' i was losing my mind. i grabbed my little brother and said "listen to THIS!"

he bought kill 'em all the next day. we put that on and WOW! i liked that even better cause it was catchier and more accessible than RTL.

but yeah, total game changers. not only were they faster and tighter than anybody else at the time, they had solid songwriting/arranging skills and their shit was catchier than any of their peers IMO. AND, they weren't singing about fucking chicks, or getting wasted, or goblins and wizards or any of that stupid shit. their hair wasn't all poofed up, they dressed like normal people. they seemed really HONEST. it was revolutionary at the time.

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