D12 users. on the hunt for a good one - need your input.
- joninc
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D12 users. on the hunt for a good one - need your input.
ok - here's the deal, i feel like a lot of producers who i like (daniel lanois, ethan john, philll brown) use this mic on kick a lot. they get nice, unhyped, rich low end on their kicks. darker, less modern recordings to be sure but great sounding IMO.
of course - i have no idea how much sculpting they do to those tracks in mix or tracking to arrive at the end result but they all choose this mic presumably because they like something about it's sound.
i bought one a few years ago on ebay and it underwhelmed me. seemed to have a pronounced bark in the mids (900 - 1k) and not a very full/deep low end. i haven't used it much as a result.
(apparently there are many of these floating around with damaged capsules and they no longer make a replacement so they aren't repairable.)
recently, i was reminded about this and decided to buy another one. again, off ebay - the ad claiming it to be "working and sounding perfectly".
so i got it yesterday and today a/b'd the 2 by recording into my DAW, listening and looking at the freq response using the waves PAZ frequency plugin.
they look fairly similar but the newer one seems to have less barky mids (lower like 500 - 800) and a little fuller bottom - they are a bit different but the difference is not as much as i'd hoped.
both seem to have a peak in the low end right at 120 - 125.
i have previously been told that these mics are really heavy and fat at like 60 - 80.
i am not sure if i have 2 duds on my hands or if these mics just aren't actually as heavy in the low end as people think.
maybe the producers i like are adding a bit more sub low end to their tracks to arrive at the sound.
really would love it if any current users/owners would be willing to chime in and better yet, let me know what type of response they see on their mics.
(to be accurate - am i seeing this particular peak due to the fact that the kick i am testing these on is tuned a certain way?)
of course - i have no idea how much sculpting they do to those tracks in mix or tracking to arrive at the end result but they all choose this mic presumably because they like something about it's sound.
i bought one a few years ago on ebay and it underwhelmed me. seemed to have a pronounced bark in the mids (900 - 1k) and not a very full/deep low end. i haven't used it much as a result.
(apparently there are many of these floating around with damaged capsules and they no longer make a replacement so they aren't repairable.)
recently, i was reminded about this and decided to buy another one. again, off ebay - the ad claiming it to be "working and sounding perfectly".
so i got it yesterday and today a/b'd the 2 by recording into my DAW, listening and looking at the freq response using the waves PAZ frequency plugin.
they look fairly similar but the newer one seems to have less barky mids (lower like 500 - 800) and a little fuller bottom - they are a bit different but the difference is not as much as i'd hoped.
both seem to have a peak in the low end right at 120 - 125.
i have previously been told that these mics are really heavy and fat at like 60 - 80.
i am not sure if i have 2 duds on my hands or if these mics just aren't actually as heavy in the low end as people think.
maybe the producers i like are adding a bit more sub low end to their tracks to arrive at the sound.
really would love it if any current users/owners would be willing to chime in and better yet, let me know what type of response they see on their mics.
(to be accurate - am i seeing this particular peak due to the fact that the kick i am testing these on is tuned a certain way?)
the new rules : there are no rules
Jon,
To arrive at a quick and dirty estimation of what your mic is doing...
Run some pink noise through a speaker. Capture that with a known flat measurement mic. Now put your D12 in the same spot and see what you get. Note the differences in freq. response. This will give you a general idea of what's happening.
To arrive at a quick and dirty estimation of what your mic is doing...
Run some pink noise through a speaker. Capture that with a known flat measurement mic. Now put your D12 in the same spot and see what you get. Note the differences in freq. response. This will give you a general idea of what's happening.
Hi there, I was in a similar position. I have one that was lacking low end, then I used one at another studio and it had amazing low end, below 75hz... Turns out these mics commonly need repair, something about the capsule getting dirty or stiff. With guidance from this thread
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=33755.40
I took mine apart and cleaned it, blew it LIGHTLY with compressed air. It's quite nerve racking, especially since I'm not a techy person at all, it's very delicate. But in the end I've gotten a bit more low end out of mine. Not as much as the one I used at another studio but closer! There are mic techs out there that have experience bringing these back to iife, which is another option if you want to pay, though of course they can't guarantee it will work... Hope this helps.
j
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=33755.40
I took mine apart and cleaned it, blew it LIGHTLY with compressed air. It's quite nerve racking, especially since I'm not a techy person at all, it's very delicate. But in the end I've gotten a bit more low end out of mine. Not as much as the one I used at another studio but closer! There are mic techs out there that have experience bringing these back to iife, which is another option if you want to pay, though of course they can't guarantee it will work... Hope this helps.
j
Re: D12 users. on the hunt for a good one - need your input.
I was curious to try the D12 for the same reasons as you - I'm into the sounds from those engineers. My only hands-on experience was trying it a couple years back at an outside studio, and it wasn't a good fit for the material so it didn't stay on the kick. So I don't have much to draw from personally.joninc wrote:ok - here's the deal, i feel like a lot of producers who i like (daniel lanois, ethan john, philll brown) use this mic on kick a lot. they get nice, unhyped, rich low end on their kicks. darker, less modern recordings to be sure but great sounding IMO.
...
both seem to have a peak in the low end right at 120 - 125.
i have previously been told that these mics are really heavy and fat at like 60 - 80.
i am not sure if i have 2 duds on my hands or if these mics just aren't actually as heavy in the low end as people think.
maybe the producers i like are adding a bit more sub low end to their tracks to arrive at the sound.
However, the spec sheet for the D12 shows a low peak around where you're hearing it, not down at 60-80:
http://www.coutant.org/akgd12e/index.html
Did you find this GS thread with sound clips? D12 vs D112 vs a Beyer
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-sho ... -freq.html
Leigh
- joninc
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thanks for the info guys, i am looking into having it worked on (as per the http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=33755.40 link) - i am terrible at stuff like
that.
i am curious about impedance issues - one of my D12's says 200 ohm on the side i don't know which preamp that might pair well with? aren't most newer preamps high impedance (like 1200?). the tg2 has an impedance switch and will do 300 so i gotta try that one out next.
i have tried the UA 610 and Great River 1nv so far.
i also have a chandler tg2, isa428, sage and germanium preamps i could try. (no time to audition them all right now)
what pres do these clasically pair really well with?
that.
i am curious about impedance issues - one of my D12's says 200 ohm on the side i don't know which preamp that might pair well with? aren't most newer preamps high impedance (like 1200?). the tg2 has an impedance switch and will do 300 so i gotta try that one out next.
i have tried the UA 610 and Great River 1nv so far.
i also have a chandler tg2, isa428, sage and germanium preamps i could try. (no time to audition them all right now)
what pres do these clasically pair really well with?
the new rules : there are no rules
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I have a d12e (a d12 with an xlr) and it certainly has lows -- but whether the peak is around 100-150 or at 60-80, I couldn't say. Sounds good on big boomy hand drums, where what you want is the boom. Never liked it as the only kick mic, but works well on batter side with a 421 in front, stuck in the drum.
On the d12e I have, the impression of big low end is exacerbated by the weak high end -- which also fits the published curve for a d12, iirc.
Proximity effect helps too.
Maybe what you were told about big bottom at 60-80 was misinformed or uncommon? Many d12s are geriatric at this point, makes 'em unpredictable.
On the d12e I have, the impression of big low end is exacerbated by the weak high end -- which also fits the published curve for a d12, iirc.
Proximity effect helps too.
Maybe what you were told about big bottom at 60-80 was misinformed or uncommon? Many d12s are geriatric at this point, makes 'em unpredictable.
"The world don't need no more songs." - Bob Dylan
"Why does the Creator send me such knuckleheads?" - Sun Ra
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"Why does the Creator send me such knuckleheads?" - Sun Ra
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- joninc
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i dunno - it seems like the guys i like, who use this mic, are using it as their only kick mic and getting great boomy lows. they are using it outside the kick but close.
i think my mics either need some love, are toast, or aren't being paired with the right preamp/impedance.
i think my mics either need some love, are toast, or aren't being paired with the right preamp/impedance.
the new rules : there are no rules
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Bottom line, If you're not getting a bass-ish result, when putting the d12 right in front of a source with a lot of low end, something's not right.
The mic is not a magic bullet though, at least not in my experience.
The mic is not a magic bullet though, at least not in my experience.
"The world don't need no more songs." - Bob Dylan
"Why does the Creator send me such knuckleheads?" - Sun Ra
.
.
.
.
"Why does the Creator send me such knuckleheads?" - Sun Ra
.
.
.
.
- joninc
- dead but not forgotten
- Posts: 2103
- Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:02 pm
- Location: canada
- Contact:
this was the latest quick test on my kick today - 16/44. tg2 preamp - impedance switch in. no compression/eq/processing
http://www.buenavistaaudio.com/wp-conte ... sample.wav
http://www.buenavistaaudio.com/wp-conte ... sample.wav
the new rules : there are no rules
I've never been into these...always wondered why they're so revered. Maybe the handful I've run across have just not been the elusive "good ones". My impression was always that it's kind of a lo-fi mic with an exaggerated low end, blurry/weak through the rest of its range and lows I could get more effectively in other ways (eq, condenser/ribbon outside the kick). Speaking of those lows- aren't they due to a built in resonator tuned specifically to 80-120 Hz?percussion boy wrote:I have a d12e (a d12 with an xlr) and it certainly has lows -- but whether the peak is around 100-150 or at 60-80, I couldn't say. Sounds good on big boomy hand drums, where what you want is the boom. Never liked it as the only kick mic, but works well on batter side with a 421 in front, stuck in the drum.
On the d12e I have, the impression of big low end is exacerbated by the weak high end -- which also fits the published curve for a d12, iirc.
Proximity effect helps too.
Maybe what you were told about big bottom at 60-80 was misinformed or uncommon? Many d12s are geriatric at this point, makes 'em unpredictable.
very informative repair thread:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=33755.0
currently pushing my D12 to the top of my to-do list
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=33755.0
currently pushing my D12 to the top of my to-do list
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