recommend a versatile LDC for loud things

[permanent hearing damage]

okay, i record very loud, heavy bands, typically. i am hoping to find something that is a little on the bright (but not brittle) side for drum OHs and vocals (often "screamers"). ideally something that doesn't break up (or at least doesn't break up too much) on loud drum OH but has a low enough self-noise that i could use it on the occasional acoustic singer/songwriter quiet stuff i do.

my 414s are actually a bit dark for my taste these days for overheads and usually sound pretty boring and flat for vocals. i have had great experiences with AT4050s as overheads, but never got to test them out on vocals and i worry they might be just a little too clean and clinical sounding in that application.

i have always wanted a great tube mic or a pair for just this sort of thing, but my only tube mic is a Joly-modded MKL2500 that sounds great in the right application but breaks up to the point of being unusable as a drum overhead and only works on singers that don't really belt it out. it's a bit noisy, as well.... why do i have this thing again?

i have heard good things about the AT4060s and heard and liked them on the only session i got to use them for. i'm expecting to throw down up to $800-1000 each for these, so i want to do a little more homework and see if there isn't anything out there i'm overlooking.

what do you have for me, folks?

[dsw]

Shure SM-7 best mic for screamer rock vocal. $350.

For LDC ADK has an S-7 that takes a lot of SPL.

ADK has a new mic coming out called THOR that has three patterns, and tons of EQ.
$450

IF you like the bright try AT 4033 or Neumann TLM 103

[kslight]

I do mostly loud heavy bands myself...

As stated before, Shure SM7 is it for hard rock vocals (screamer or not).


I really like the Shure KSM44 on anything you'd put an LDC on...drum overheads especially. Neumann TLM 103 is also good but a bit more towards bright on overheads, but for my money I prefer the KSM44.

I bet if you watched the used market you could buy a pair of KSM44s and an SM7B for around $800.

[permanent hearing damage]

thanks for your responses, folks. i actually own and love my SM7 on vocals loud and otherwise, these days, and i have been using a pair of 4033s on overheads that has been working nicely. the 4050s seemed to have a bit of an edge over the 4033s as i remember it, though it could all be in my head.

how does the ksm44 compare to the 4050 for those who have experience with both?

[jgimbel]

I don't have experience with the KSM44 so unfortunately I can't comment there, but I have used my 4050 for vocals quite a bit. I wouldn't call it a bright mic on vocals but it certainly doesn't attenuate high end. I got my 4050 after choosing it over a 414, though I think they'd be useful on the same sources. I just find the 4050 to basically present things how they sound in the room, while the 414 really sounded pretty sterile to me. The 4050 might be technically less flat than the 414, but the specific "flat" that the 4050 does sounds more natural to me than the 414.

I tend to use my 4050 on vocals in the (relatively few) occasions that the SM7 isn't doing it for me. It can get a little more pushed on those high mid frequencies than I usually like on really love vocals, but if the mix is dense sometimes that works. Hell, isn't that something that has often made a U87 a choice?

[vvv]

A bit cheaper is the AT4040 (new US$300 but a lot less used). You wanna hear 'em on OH's they are on the last few songs on my TFP link at the bottom of this post.

Go back 6 months and they are on vocals (tracks list the recording chain at bottom of the page).

The other mic I would reco (note some for sale here - no relation to me) are the CAD M149's, and cheaper yet. I've only used 'em on vocals and guitar - love 'em - and with the infinitely variable pattern and wide-open frequency response, I bet they'd work well on OH's.

[Matt C.]

I've used both the AT4050 and the KSM44. I liked the KSM44 better, sounded natural without being boring. 4050 had a boxy sound to it that I didn't like (or rather it accentuated the boxy sound of my room more than I wanted it to). Still i'm sure the 4050 is a good mic, other people seem to love it.

[permanent hearing damage]

I could be mistaken but I thought the 4040 was the same mic as the 4033 but was machine assembled instead of by hand?

[trodden]

Interesting. Which model of 414's do you have/use?

I sometimes track at a place that has 414 b-uls and I love them for OH's due to them being less bright. If I need them to shine a bit more, EQ.

I record heavy bands as well. And anything that helps take the edge off of the cymbal smashers.

Would love to have a pair of my own. But my room doesn't sound as good as the place where I do get to use the 414 buls.

[vvv]

I could be mistaken but I thought the 4040 was the same mic as the 4033 but was machine assembled instead of by hand?

Nope, see here.

[permanent hearing damage]

i have had a pair of 414b-uls for more than ten years now. I do like them for OH and female/singy vocals often. but these last six months or so, they are sounding far too dull on overheads for what i'm after. if the drummer is really bashing the cymbals, i have a pair of joly-modded rsm5s that work wonders.

vvv, thanks for the article. kinda kicking myself for not grabbing the used 4040 i saw on here a few months back for $150.

[accordion squeezist]

Consider the Sennheiser 441, not a LCD, but it is bright, not harsh, loves SPL.
If you can stick right up to the bell of a sax you should be able to scream into it. I have not used it on overheads, but have seen old videos using it.
I do not consider it a supercardioid as marketed, but a tight cardioid (like the SM57), and it is very smooth off axis. On occasional singer/acoustic guitar, it will get by.

[T-rex]

I don't know about heavy rock, but the Blue Mouse sounds like what you might be looking for. You pretty much can't distort the damn thing. I use it right off the outside head of my 24 inch kick and I have to pad its output to my pres. I have used it as a mono overhead before and it sound great. Its bright, but has a nice solid low end as well so it works well across the spectrum. I would think its too nyped on the top end, but if you want bright maybe that works for you. You can put it right up on a bass amp and hammer it and it never breaks up. Never tried it with a screaming vocalist though and it's fixed cardiode so maybe not that versatile but you can buy them used all day long for $600.

[dsw]

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:42 am Post subject: Re: recommend a versatile LDC for loud things Reply with quote [Mark post as unread]
permanent hearing damage wrote:
I could be mistaken but I thought the 4040 was the same mic as the 4033 but was machine assembled instead of by hand?


Nope, see here.

I was selling AT 4040 and AT 4033 when the 4040 came out and when popular demand brought back the 4033.

I don't know where the blogger gets his info but The Audio Technica Reps told us that the 4040 was the same as a 4033 except that the build process was largely automated. The 4033 was more expensive because much more of the process had to done by hand. Inevitably there will be differences between the two especially when you expect to hear them.
Personally I think they sound almost identical.

[vvv]

The 4033 is a electret, the 4040 is externally polarized, see here and here.

Some sound samples, here.

More GS, here.

For me, the 3033 is spitty, the 4040 smoover, and I love it (as said) on OH's. I must admit, tho', I'm not using it on vox, now preferring the AKG A51 V for a cheap condensor, else the MD451n for large dynamic.

Finally, I tend to be skeptical of people selling stuff, y'know like, for example, reps ...