Overheads: M201s or ECM8000s?

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Fri May 03, 2013 12:50 pm

Band in smallish room (15m?, approx). Miked up guitar and bass amps with no isolation. Thinking of using GJ method and laying the drums down to three tracks (snare, kick, overheads both summed to a single track)

Which would you choose?

And, yes, that is all I have in terms of pairs of mics.

I'm kind of hoping you'll say the ECMs, so I can use one of the 201s for the snare and the other on the guitar amp. Not sure an ECM8000 would work as a snare mic. My only other choices for a snare mic are an EV635a, a Beyerdynamic Soundstar, a MD421 or an AKG D321. The Soundstar and AKG are both very definitely in the vocal mic category, complete with spherical baskets.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:56 pm

I believe the ECM8000 risks distortion onna snare drum; the 421 is not unusual (altho' I've seen more often reco'd for OH's or toms) and I suspect the Soundstar and AKG would be more suitable than the Berry's on snare (high SPL, y'know).

Also, as Snarl speaks of here, why stereo OH's if you are summing to mono?

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Fri May 03, 2013 7:07 pm

I've never put my m201 in the overhead position. Probably because it seems glued to snare drum duty.

I would think of 635 as a mono overhead. You can try moving it to a lot of different spots to affect the balance.

Definitely not a "hi fi" choice but it could sound really cool.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat May 04, 2013 1:10 am

Hmm. Hadn't thought of using the 421 as a snare mic. Always assumed it'd be too bulky and hard to position. I was going to use that on the kick, but I have other mics that can do kcik drum duty (the Beyerdynamic M99 and the Audio-Technica ATM25).

So, how about the M201s as overheads (GJ style), 421 on snare and 99/25 on kick?

I can't wait till I have enough spare cash to pick up that missing cymbal stand

boid · Post by **boid** » Sat May 04, 2013 1:23 am

depends on the snare and how you want it to sound, really.

I often use the MD421 on the snare if say a 57 sounds too tiny or not enough bottom
and then it's just perfect
at the same time if i'm using the MD421 and the snare sounds too muffled without detail i move to something like a 57 or a condenser.

so all I'm saying is that I wouldn't plan everything out and then rely on using it on the snare.
Try it and change it around if you have the time.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat May 04, 2013 1:54 am

Did you try it with the frequency roll off switch in each position?

Another possibility might be to use one 201 as a single overhead (when I tried it on my own I had to turn the gain on the mixer three quarters of the way up, but that might be because (a) I was hitting the drums behind me whilst watching the meter and (b) I'm not a drummer anyway. Perhaps I won't need as much gain as I did when they're being played properly by someone sitting at them. We'll see) and the other one on the snare, Though I did read that the 201s make excellent mics for the GJ method, so I'm trying that, even if I have to forego a snare mic.

What do you think of the possibility of using a EV 635a as a snare mic?

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sat May 04, 2013 8:22 am

Dynamics are kind of a specific sound for overheads. They are slower than condensers and have a big of a chunky sound. You should consider weather that will work in your production. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just a thing. 635a can be cool as an OH, but you'll want a little hi EQ lift or possibly a brighter room mic to add a little cymbal detail. I don't doubt the same for M201, though I've never used one as an OH. ON a record where I used a 635 as OH I had an Octave MC012 on piano, and an AT pro37 on acoustic guitar tracked in the same room. The piano and guitar mic became a big part of the drum sound.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat May 04, 2013 10:19 am

FWIW, when I was recording a lot of drums last year, I kept changing out snare mic's for giggles.

Always dynamic, for me.

And anything ya might consider onna amp can work onna snare.

I was digging old AKG's, cheap Digital Reference, cheap AT and Shure mic's (57, 58, some cheaper), a Audix F3 tom mic and a Senn 503 - they all worked, all sounded just a bit different.

Eventually, in my set-up, I came to like the SM58 and then the Beta58 the best (the Beta nicely and pretty easily kept the hats off-axis), windscreen on.

I suspect a 421II might work well, altho' I didn't get around to trying it.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat May 04, 2013 11:38 am

A 421II?

Damn. I only have a I

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat May 04, 2013 12:06 pm

The 421II is the latest version.

I have a (white) 421n and prefer it as the (black) 421II is a bit brighter, but both are very nice.

(More mic's can be seen here, if yer into that sorta porn.)

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat May 04, 2013 12:14 pm

Oh. I thought the II was only released in the last 15 years.

Looks like I do have that one after all. I kind of assumed the white one was some kind of special edition.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat May 04, 2013 4:23 pm

I think the color was just a option.

The "n" denotes a Ampherol connector, hence the never-removed patch cord to convert to XLR.

That said, I do think of it as sounding "creamy".

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat May 04, 2013 4:39 pm

I'm thinking of getting a stereo pair of the AKG Perception 170s.

Don't try to stop me :p

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sun May 05, 2013 3:03 am

vvv wrote:I believe the ECM8000 risks distortion onna snare drum; the 421 is not unusual (altho' I've seen more often reco'd for OH's or toms) and I suspect the Soundstar and AKG would be more suitable than the Berry's on snare (high SPL, y'know).

Also, as Snarl speaks of here, why stereo OH's if you are summing to mono?

Sorry, I missed this one. The second, over the floor tom mic, is to pick up the floor tom and ride cymbal.

I don't think either will be picked up all that well by a hypercardioid dynamic poistioned a couple of feet above the snare.

I'm not 100% committed to the mono sound, so I want to have the option to record the drums in stereo (still 3 tracks. Keep the kick separate).

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sun May 05, 2013 3:07 am

vvv wrote:I believe the ECM8000 risks distortion onna snare drum; the 421 is not unusual (altho' I've seen more often reco'd for OH's or toms) and I suspect the Soundstar and AKG would be more suitable than the Berry's on snare (high SPL, y'know).

Also, as Snarl speaks of here, why stereo OH's if you are summing to mono?

Sorry, I missed this one. The second, over the floor tom mic, is to pick up the floor tom and ride cymbal.

I don't think either will be picked up all that well by a hyerpcardioid dynamic poistioned a couple of feet above the snare.

I'm not 100% committed to the mono sound, so I want to have the option to record the drums in stereo (still 3 tracks. Keep the kick separate).

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Overheads: M201s or ECM8000s?

Overheads: M201s or ECM8000s?

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