which LDC or ribbon for mono overhead drum tracking?

[joninc]

[quote="Jim Williams"
I never had great results using a dipole mic for overheads, I don't want to mic the ceiling.[/quote]

It's an interesting point - in theory I would have agreed but I've found that in my experience, the coles actually gives me a very tight, dry and focused sound - much less room tone than most other mics (especially condensors) that I have tried.

It definitely doesn't sound like a an ambient room mic at all.

[trodden]

many times i solo that track and it's like 90% all there with that one mic. especially good to help keep fullness of toms and snare when you won't be close micing them!

My sentiments, exactly.

I own four of these mics and would use eight of them almost every day if I had that many. The prices on these keep going up, so they're clearly a solid investment. The second pair that I bought two years ago is now worth what I paid for the first pair on the used market a few years farther back. I've had only one of these re-ribboned so far and that is a case where the mic has been used almost every day for the last seven years or so. A totally useful and solid investment, if you can swing it. And to my ears, there is no better single mic to capture a great drum kit sound with.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Damn... someday...

[Jim Williams]

[quote="Jim Williams"
I never had great results using a dipole mic for overheads, I don't want to mic the ceiling.

It's an interesting point - in theory I would have agreed but I've found that in my experience, the coles actually gives me a very tight, dry and focused sound - much less room tone than most other mics (especially condensors) that I have tried.

It definitely doesn't sound like a an ambient room mic at all.[/quote]

Coles might be the exception, not a true dipole as the rear sounds much different than the front. With a tall ceiling I might have better luck but those rooms are rare.

[standup]

I'm using 4 mics on a drumkit right now, but my 2-mic option at the moment is a Blue Dragonfly Deluxe on overheads and EV 868 on kick. It does the job, and if you compress the living snot out of the overhead it's a good sound on its own.

I think you could dig up those 2 mics used for about your budget.

I haven't ever used the regular Dragonfly, only the Deluxe which I happened on cheap.

The Dragonfly is a reasonably versatile large diaphragm condenser, cardioid only. It's a bit on the bright side, which works for me in my Rockwool-deadened basement recording space.

I like the RE20, but right now I'm using the 868 on kick, and getting a good sound.

Instead of an RE20 (which I love, but they're not cheap), a Sennheiser 421 or even Shure SM7b might be good choices for kick and other sound sources.

The RE20 is a desert island mic you can point at anything successfully, so if you can afford it you won't regret it.

[honkyjonk]

I've always been surprised by how good a Beyer M160 is as a mono overhead. Right now I have a setup with an SM7 as a (very low, almost heart mic) overhead and a 421 on the kick. I'm summing these on one channel of a 4 track.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I've always been surprised by how good a Beyer M160 is as a mono overhead. Right now I have a setup with an SM7 as a (very low, almost heart mic) overhead and a 421 on the kick. I'm summing these on one channel of a 4 track.

Nice! I'm also 4 tracking at the moment. My 3 mic set-up is a 414 overhead, a Shure boundary mic in the kick (with no front head) and an RE15 on the snare. All 3 get bussed down to one track.

[JWL]

I never had great results using a dipole mic for overheads, I don't want to mic the ceiling.

Yeah. I think it can be cool if you are tracking a full band, that way you can aim the null points of the mics toward amps. Then by using an absorptive cloud you minimize what's coming back from the ceiling.

[ulriggribbons]

Coles might be the exception, not a true dipole as the rear sounds much different than the front.

I'll beg to differ on that. Some ribbon designs manipulate the polar response through the use of varying acoustic labyrinths, but the 4038 is not one of them.

The 4038 does a respectable job of maintaining it's polar response in both the horizontal and vertical plane.

Regards

Jon

[vvv]

Hers's some info:
http://www.coutant.org/stc/4038/4038.pdf

[Nick Sevilla]

"Does anyone have suggestions for lesser known but quality LDCs that can be had for less money? I'm looking to buy something that will hold it's value rather than something cheap that I'll outgrow."

Hi,

Point one:

If you are to record drums, TRANSIENTS are super important. There fore use a solid state driven microphone, such as the AKG414 series, or even their AKG451 as well.

STAY AWAY FROM TUBES AND RIBBONS. They will smear and phuck up your transients. This is better done at a later stage, with your DAW.

Point two: Cheap mics suck. They also do not hold their value. So don't buy cheap. Buy good used, or good new. You will thank me later.

Cheers

[Recycled_Brains]

"Does anyone have suggestions for lesser known but quality LDCs that can be had for less money? I'm looking to buy something that will hold it's value rather than something cheap that I'll outgrow."

Hi,

Point one:

If you are to record drums, TRANSIENTS are super important. There fore use a solid state driven microphone, such as the AKG414 series, or even their AKG451 as well.

STAY AWAY FROM TUBES AND RIBBONS. They will smear and phuck up your transients. This is better done at a later stage, with your DAW.

Point two: Cheap mics suck. They also do not hold their value. So don't buy cheap. Buy good used, or good new. You will thank me later.

Cheers

414s have been a real go-to for me for OH lately. Also bass cab (I was happy to see Ethan Johns say the same in that TO article).

You want crazy transient detail though... Josephson C42. 414 would be a good choice though.

[trodden]

"Does anyone have suggestions for lesser known but quality LDCs that can be had for less money? I'm looking to buy something that will hold it's value rather than something cheap that I'll outgrow."

Hi,

Point one:

If you are to record drums, TRANSIENTS are super important. There fore use a solid state driven microphone, such as the AKG414 series, or even their AKG451 as well.

STAY AWAY FROM TUBES AND RIBBONS. They will smear and phuck up your transients. This is better done at a later stage, with your DAW.

Point two: Cheap mics suck. They also do not hold their value. So don't buy cheap. Buy good used, or good new. You will thank me later.

Cheers

414s have been a real go-to for me for OH lately. Also bass cab (I was happy to see Ethan Johns say the same in that TO article).

You want crazy transient detail though... Josephson C42. 414 would be a good choice though.

Next to a pair of Coles 4038, I'd love a couple pairs of 414 B-uls. That model of 414 works great on a lot of things, and when in a studio that has a few pair, they're used on OH's, toms, room mics, and guitar cabs (paired with a ribbon/dynamic).

[losthighway]

STAY AWAY FROM TUBES AND RIBBONS. They will smear and phuck up your transients.

But oh so many of my favorite records were recorded with what must be smeared, and phucked transients given the tube and ribbon mic usage on the drums!

[oneflightup]

A couple of overhead mic choices I've used recently - all mono overhead recordings:

RCA 77DX - on a cover of a 30's jazz piece.
Coles 4038 (like early Ringo...)
AKG D19C (like Ringo...)

Cheers!

Nick

[A.David.MacKinnon]

A couple of overhead mic choices I've used recently - all mono overhead recordings:

RCA 77DX - on a cover of a 30's jazz piece.
Coles 4038 (like early Ringo...)
AKG D19C (like Ringo...)

Cheers!

Nick

Great choices all around. The d19 can be great in the right situation. I need to dig mine out again. I always for get about it.

I'm currently using a single AKG D224 about 6' over the kit. Not a ribbon or LCD but a damn nice sounding mic if you can find one that works.