I'm not a piano technician
- Scodiddly
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4015
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
- Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
- Contact:
I'm not a piano technician
...but I've been actually doing some of that stuff lately, and I thought it might be interesting and useful to share.
I suppose it started when I got that "basket case" Wurlie from another TOMB member a while back, but it didn't really kick in until several years ago when I was talking to a real piano technician. Turns out you don't need perfect pitch to tune pianos or do other work, you just need what she called "attention to detail" and I interpreted as being able to concentrate much longer than most people. Does it drive you crazy when you can't get your guitar in tune in under 30 seconds? Imagine spending a couple hours on a piano!
So when a donated piano showed up in my living room (long story, but don't let people donate their piano to your church when they move away), I realized that it wasn't good enough for me to spend money on. But on the upside, nobody would be too upset if I screwed up in the process of learning how to tune it. So I watched a couple of videos, invested not all that much money on a student tuning kit from Howard Piano (https://www.howardpianoindustries.com/p ... -mute-kit/), and got to work. I went through a couple different software tuning apps and finally found an iOS app called "AP Tuner" which is sadly not available any more. I don't consider that Strobosoft stuff to be good enough, frankly. But you could start with a basic chromatic tuner, because you're really only using it for a couple octaves in the middle. From there it can be done by ear by doing octaves - I'll stop there, it gets interesting but the videos and other sources cover it pretty well.
I suppose it started when I got that "basket case" Wurlie from another TOMB member a while back, but it didn't really kick in until several years ago when I was talking to a real piano technician. Turns out you don't need perfect pitch to tune pianos or do other work, you just need what she called "attention to detail" and I interpreted as being able to concentrate much longer than most people. Does it drive you crazy when you can't get your guitar in tune in under 30 seconds? Imagine spending a couple hours on a piano!
So when a donated piano showed up in my living room (long story, but don't let people donate their piano to your church when they move away), I realized that it wasn't good enough for me to spend money on. But on the upside, nobody would be too upset if I screwed up in the process of learning how to tune it. So I watched a couple of videos, invested not all that much money on a student tuning kit from Howard Piano (https://www.howardpianoindustries.com/p ... -mute-kit/), and got to work. I went through a couple different software tuning apps and finally found an iOS app called "AP Tuner" which is sadly not available any more. I don't consider that Strobosoft stuff to be good enough, frankly. But you could start with a basic chromatic tuner, because you're really only using it for a couple octaves in the middle. From there it can be done by ear by doing octaves - I'll stop there, it gets interesting but the videos and other sources cover it pretty well.
- Scodiddly
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4015
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
- Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
Sources - youtube, of course.
Also books, I have the venerable book by Arthur Reblitz about repairing and tuning pianos, also Mario Igrec's much more recent "Pianos Inside Out".
And of course old-fashioned message boards, like the Piano Tuner's Guild websit http://www.ptg.org which has a great forum area.
Beyond tuning I found myself getting into action regulation, which is the various action adjustments needed to make every note work properly. Another tedious task, and I had to do some actual repairs where I was pulling out individual action parts until I really understood how a vertical piano action works. From there I could finally do the adjustments correctly. I found that while books describe all this pretty well, it's just fundamentally difficult to learn because that format has you learn a bunch of names of parts, then learn how they interact. Probably there are some videos that show it better anyway.
Also books, I have the venerable book by Arthur Reblitz about repairing and tuning pianos, also Mario Igrec's much more recent "Pianos Inside Out".
And of course old-fashioned message boards, like the Piano Tuner's Guild websit http://www.ptg.org which has a great forum area.
Beyond tuning I found myself getting into action regulation, which is the various action adjustments needed to make every note work properly. Another tedious task, and I had to do some actual repairs where I was pulling out individual action parts until I really understood how a vertical piano action works. From there I could finally do the adjustments correctly. I found that while books describe all this pretty well, it's just fundamentally difficult to learn because that format has you learn a bunch of names of parts, then learn how they interact. Probably there are some videos that show it better anyway.
- digitaldrummer
- cryogenically thawing
- Posts: 3583
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
- Location: Austin, Texas
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
I'm with you. I would need to see it too - or feel it, and watch it, or even disassemble it. I just learn better that way (vs. books - too bad I figured that out after school lol).
- Scodiddly
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4015
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
- Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
So the piano I started with was a 1973 Wurlitzer spinet. Not a great piano by any standard, and as a spinet it had the added bonus of being hard to work on. I did get it to where it sounded pretty good in the midrange (where all the money is anyway), and it stayed in tune pretty well too. But it had more and more weird buzzes, and it came to light that a lot of the glue holding it all together was failing. That would be possible to repair, but not without a lot of work and special tooling.
So instead I disassembled it to see how the hidden parts fit together. Again, this was a piano that had been written off and nobody cared, especially not if it was falling apart. That was an interesting experience. It took about an hour to pull the action and take the front of the piano off, then several evenings to get all the strings and tuning pins out. Finally another hour to take the back apart. And sure enough, most of the glue joints came apart way too easily. But it was educational, and cheaper than having it hauled away. I gave some bits to an artist, saved a lot of wood for building things, and I still have the plate (the cast iron harp thingy) in my garage for the village "bring out your dead" day coming up. Hopefully a scrap metal collector will get it, if they don't blow out their back putting it in their truck.
So instead I disassembled it to see how the hidden parts fit together. Again, this was a piano that had been written off and nobody cared, especially not if it was falling apart. That was an interesting experience. It took about an hour to pull the action and take the front of the piano off, then several evenings to get all the strings and tuning pins out. Finally another hour to take the back apart. And sure enough, most of the glue joints came apart way too easily. But it was educational, and cheaper than having it hauled away. I gave some bits to an artist, saved a lot of wood for building things, and I still have the plate (the cast iron harp thingy) in my garage for the village "bring out your dead" day coming up. Hopefully a scrap metal collector will get it, if they don't blow out their back putting it in their truck.
Re: I'm not a piano technician
Proud owner of a 1960’s Wurlitzer upright. You’re inspiring me to learn to tune the damn thing myself.
- Scodiddly
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4015
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
- Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
I should mention that while you don't need golden ears to tune a piano, you do still need to be a bit of a weirdo to get through the whole thing. That top octave is a *very* tough neighborhood.
And if you've got a professional technician coming in to tune your higher quality piano... definitely keep giving them your business. Though I've heard from a friend or two in the business they're actually turning away work, one in particular won't work on spinets at all.
And if you've got a professional technician coming in to tune your higher quality piano... definitely keep giving them your business. Though I've heard from a friend or two in the business they're actually turning away work, one in particular won't work on spinets at all.
Re: I'm not a piano technician
That's great that you got into it.
When I had my "jazz bar" (Avenue B Social Club, later became Manitoba's) we had a nice Yamaha upright in there and some very good players on our calendar. I was getting the piano tuned every couple weeks and worked on too. I would go there to let the guy in and all since it was only a block from my house. Learned a lot about pianos.
The guy sold me a Hammer/Mute kit and showed me how to use it. Anybody who's got a studio should have one so you can touch things up when needed.
When I had my "jazz bar" (Avenue B Social Club, later became Manitoba's) we had a nice Yamaha upright in there and some very good players on our calendar. I was getting the piano tuned every couple weeks and worked on too. I would go there to let the guy in and all since it was only a block from my house. Learned a lot about pianos.
The guy sold me a Hammer/Mute kit and showed me how to use it. Anybody who's got a studio should have one so you can touch things up when needed.
Re: I'm not a piano technician
I repaired a Rhodes 77 some 20 years ago.
Not the same, I know, but I mention because I was able to tune it with a Sabine tuner (after I did a lot of mechanical work on some of the tines and key arms and hammers and further work on some coils).
Would a modern tuner with a mic help with that?
Not the same, I know, but I mention because I was able to tune it with a Sabine tuner (after I did a lot of mechanical work on some of the tines and key arms and hammers and further work on some coils).
Would a modern tuner with a mic help with that?
- Scodiddly
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4015
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
- Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
I think a fair number of modern tuners would be mostly OK, though really you want something that's rather high resolution. Real professional piano tuning software goes in the the hundreds of dollars! I wish the guy behind the AP Tuner app was still producing it, as it was $10 for something really great for tuning almost anything.
I think the Peterson strobo software is junk, though. It couldn't even get the D string on my acoustic right; it was always 3-4 cents wrong.
Re: I'm not a piano technician
So I've always heard about the idea of "stretch tuning," which I understand to be something along the line of, "once you make it out of the middle, ignore the tuner and train/ trust your ears, as harmonic truth and perfect equal temperament are both false trails."
True? Or have I misunderstood?
True? Or have I misunderstood?
Village Idiot.
- Nick Sevilla
- on a wing and a prayer
- Posts: 5595
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretched_tuningfloid wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:53 pmSo I've always heard about the idea of "stretch tuning," which I understand to be something along the line of, "once you make it out of the middle, ignore the tuner and train/ trust your ears, as harmonic truth and perfect equal temperament are both false trails."
True? Or have I misunderstood?
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.
- Scodiddly
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4015
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
- Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
It's that things get rather interesting as you go to the extremes. Basically the harmonics end up not quite in tune with the fundamental, and which do you want to match the next octave? A good tuning app will be able to take that into account, mostly.floid wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:53 pmSo I've always heard about the idea of "stretch tuning," which I understand to be something along the line of, "once you make it out of the middle, ignore the tuner and train/ trust your ears, as harmonic truth and perfect equal temperament are both false trails."
True? Or have I misunderstood?
I generally use the tuner for a couple octaves in the middle, and then octaves by ear out from there. With the tuner as a sanity check - even if you're drifting sharp as you go north, the individual notes shouldn't vary much from their next door neighbors.
- Scodiddly
- speech impediment
- Posts: 4015
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
- Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
I would add that after spending an hour plus tuning, I walk away with extremely fine pitch perception for a little while afterwards. Or so it seems, anyway.
- digitaldrummer
- cryogenically thawing
- Posts: 3583
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
- Location: Austin, Texas
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
I still keep expecting your first post to start out with "...but I play one on TV."
- trodden
- on a wing and a prayer
- Posts: 5765
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 8:21 am
- Location: C-attle
- Contact:
Re: I'm not a piano technician
Ahh, so I'm not the only one.digitaldrummer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:14 amI still keep expecting your first post to start out with "...but I play one on TV."
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 233 guests