What things have you learned recently?

[qball]

Would this work for monitoring the tracking levels (to keep them at -18dBFS)?
http://www.smproaudio.com/VU8.htm

[Kasey]

i guess thats the point of that but you really don't need it. just keep your levels around -18dBFS... why spend money on that other than to make you feel better about it after being used to recording as hot as possible without clipping?

[liftyrfists]

Yeah, great thread - what a great way to learn. Not recent revelations, but some significant ones...

- Mixing at low volume is a good thing
- Patchbays are built by angels
- My decision to switch to Pro Tools was a good one (for me)
- Good cable makes a difference
- Delay is more useful than reverb
- Silvertone amps are incredible to record
- Don't sweat sample rates and bit depths
- A well place Radioshack mic is better than any poorly placed mic
- Don't ever sell anything unless its just shit

Adam

As far as #1 goes...does that mean you can track at a higher volume, but ultimately make-sure everything's output is lower so that the fine person mastering the thing has more head-room to work with?

Not very far into this whole "recording" thing, so still some questions about it...which makes sense. So can it go in high? Or should it go in low as well? I had thought you wanted the loudest parts of what you're playing to just barely scrape against the red, but never going over it of course; finding that gentle and fine balance.

Help!

[qball]

i guess thats the point of that but you really don't need it. just keep your levels around -18dBFS... why spend money on that other than to make you feel better about it after being used to recording as hot as possible without clipping?

I know what "dBvu" is, but I just can't figure out what "DbFS" is. Please, oh please help me!

[???????]

Yeah, great thread - what a great way to learn. Not recent revelations, but some significant ones...

- Mixing at low volume is a good thing
- Patchbays are built by angels
- My decision to switch to Pro Tools was a good one (for me)
- Good cable makes a difference
- Delay is more useful than reverb
- Silvertone amps are incredible to record
- Don't sweat sample rates and bit depths
- A well place Radioshack mic is better than any poorly placed mic
- Don't ever sell anything unless its just shit

Adam

As far as #1 goes...does that mean you can track at a higher volume, but ultimately make-sure everything's output is lower so that the fine person mastering the thing has more head-room to work with?

Not very far into this whole "recording" thing, so still some questions about it...which makes sense. So can it go in high? Or should it go in low as well? I had thought you wanted the loudest parts of what you're playing to just barely scrape against the red, but never going over it of course; finding that gentle and fine balance.

Help!

I think he might mean "don't blast your monitors and wear your ears out."

Everything sounds pretty good cranked up. Making sure the mix sounds great at a low volume (that there is vocal intelligibility if that's what you are going for, that you can hear all the instruments, etc) is pretty helpful. And it doesn't wear your ears out.

[bantam]

dBFS = dB Full Scale, it is relative to the max that a digitial converter can theoretically handle.

in practice shoot for -12 to -18

[knobtwirler]

Poorly recorded great songs make the gear either invisible or even cooler than they were before the great song was recorded. Amazingly recorded crappy music isn't worth its weight in commercially distributed CDs. Oh, and Matt Pinnfield knows everbody who ever recorded anything anywhere, and thinks everyone is cool and has done incredible things.

[Kasey]

Not very far into this whole "recording" thing, so still some questions about it...which makes sense. So can it go in high? Or should it go in low as well? I had thought you wanted the loudest parts of what you're playing to just barely scrape against the red, but never going over it of course; finding that gentle and fine balance.

Help!

no! that's what we're talking about. you should not be trying to 'scrape against the red'. You're destroying headroom by doing this. headroom is your friend.

really, it's not as complex as it sounds in practice. Just keep your input levels on digital gear around -18dBFS. Just do it. you'll be thankful come mix down.

On some digital meters, such as ADAT's, the color of the meter bars change from green to yellow or orange around -18dBFS. This is why. Keep most of your signal green.

The loudest parts will vary, but peaks should still stay around -12 dBFS.

[mjau]

Couple of things I've learned recently:

I can't sing, and never will be able to. I'm all 400 Hz and 3k.
I tend to err on the side of overly dark, versus overly bright.
Purple Audio makes amazing preamps.
Bass DI is sometimes all that's needed.
Compression is a choice, not a matter of practice.
Same with reverb.
Don't be afraid to use tons of reverb, or none at all.
Effectrons are the greatest piece of gear, ever.

[Jeff White]

Would this work for monitoring the tracking levels (to keep them at -18dBFS)?
http://www.smproaudio.com/VU8.htm

If you record on a computer use...

FreeG

or...

PSP Vintage Meter

What I do... I usually set up an Aux track for monitoring my input, set the plug-ins on that Aux track in Digital Performer for pre-fader, and turn the fader on the Aux track to zero (So I don't hear latency). I use FreeG and keep the RMS between -12dB and -18dB, and watch my peaks as well. I'll compress if my source material is peaky and needs to be tamed a bit.

Jeff

[liftyrfists]

Not very far into this whole "recording" thing, so still some questions about it...which makes sense. So can it go in high? Or should it go in low as well? I had thought you wanted the loudest parts of what you're playing to just barely scrape against the red, but never going over it of course; finding that gentle and fine balance.

Help!

no! that's what we're talking about. you should not be trying to 'scrape against the red'. You're destroying headroom by doing this. headroom is your friend.

really, it's not as complex as it sounds in practice. Just keep your input levels on digital gear around -18dBFS. Just do it. you'll be thankful come mix down.

On some digital meters, such as ADAT's, the color of the meter bars change from green to yellow or orange around -18dBFS. This is why. Keep most of your signal green.

The loudest parts will vary, but peaks should still stay around -12 dBFS.

Isn't that 'make your loudest parts go into the red slightly' mantra something that is advocated in manufacturers guides? I feel like the manual for my lexicon omega stated something like that, which is why I do it! Ah: bastards, haha.

So ok ok, when looking at the actual sound file on my computer and when comparing the input levels on the input box it seems like it peaks really quickly on the box, but on the sound file there is still a ton of room between the highest peaks of the digital approximation and the physical cut-off at the top. Is this what you're talking about as far as there being a kind of built in thing to maximize headroom as far as digital goes?

I've been wondering about that for a while now: my input seems to be flirting with yellow at it's highest points, never consistently in the yellow and certainly never in red, but the sound files look rather tame and are nowhere near what those levels would look like visually (it seems like they'd be close to literally clipping)...

However, when I put some songs into the multitrack (for radio commercials and what-not) the levels are always right up there; is that a result of the mastering utilizing head-room and pushing things up? I guess that's compression...just the high parts though, I tend to look for dynamic in the things I listen to and force on other people

And having said this would it be a good rule of thumb to always "round down" as opposed to "rounding up" when talking about volume in mixing?

Just curious...obviously a student on this end! Thanks for the help...and great thread by the way!

[mcRack]

I`m confused !!
I have a m-audio delta 1010 card and i cant get the meters on it down to
-18 dbfs (-6 dbfs is the lowest signal i can get when recording drums). The problem is that the gain volume on my outboard mixer channels is turned all the way down(i`m using the channel inserts i/o as direct out).
The 1010 card comes with input faders for each channel but these only affect the
input to logic(post converting A/D ) . I have no problem recording at -18dbfs in logic but as i see it the signal is already converted too hot.....or...ehhhhh
Help me out guys...

Sorry for my broken English....peace

[Kasey]

However, when I put some songs into the multitrack (for radio commercials and what-not) the levels are always right up there; is that a result of the mastering utilizing head-room and pushing things up? I guess that's compression...just the high parts though, I tend to look for dynamic in the things I listen to and force on other people

And having said this would it be a good rule of thumb to always "round down" as opposed to "rounding up" when talking about volume in mixing?

yes and yes

[knobtwirler]

I`m confused !!
I have a m-audio delta 1010 card and i cant get the meters on it down to
-18 dbfs (-6 dbfs is the lowest signal i can get when recording drums).

That can't be right. -18 is where generally 0 vu sits on an analog averaging meter. You mean that everything you meter is above that? How can this be?

[mcRack]

I`m confused !!
I have a m-audio delta 1010 card and i cant get the meters on it down to
-18 dbfs (-6 dbfs is the lowest signal i can get when recording drums).

That can't be right. -18 is where generally 0 vu sits on an analog averaging meter. You mean that everything you meter is above that? How can this be?

That`S exactly what i`m talking about,i don`t get it either !
O dbvu= -18 dbfs
In my case 0 dbvu seems to be -6 dbfs.....hmmm I need to do some more reading about my soundcard