"Led Zeppelin" drum sounds have ruined rock 'n rol

[junkyardtodd]

Oh yeah, but I really dig the first ZEP record.

[Fieryjack]

You know, I read the subject of this thread a couple of days ago and I laughed it off.

But on reflection, there's lot of truth to it. This heavy drum style really permeated rock music for so many years (give or take many degrees of quality along the way), and has been the holy grail for so many engineers. Tunnel vision - go after that Bonham sound, that's all there is to strive for.

I listened to Belle & Sebastian's "Dylan in the Movies" and it's such a refreshing drum sound (though not new to indie music). The lightness of that drumming really brings out a whole nother element in the music.

[allbaldo]

Seems like a lot of the time, whatever instrument is being played in the most interesting way makes it's way to the front...and whatever is being played with the most rhythmic intensity as well. Zep tends to be pretty sloppy..except for, well, Bonham, so it's not a suprise that he ended up being so loud in their mixes.

[LeedyGuy]

In what way has it ruined rock and roll? Are you saying that because artists want Bonham's drum sounds on their records that it is ruined or because engineers automatically go for big ol roomy sounds or is it a combination of these two which is recording sounds like this and they done FIT the tune?

I like Jesse Harris drum sounds on his records. That's great stuff. His guitar player recorded most of his albums (except for the last 2) and they did it all live on 24 track analog in the guitar player's apartment. The drums sound like all they really are is bleed into everything else. It's pretty sweet. But maybe this roomy sound is what you're complaining about...but it sound GOOD in this case because these arrangements tend to be sorta jazzy and the drummers that he uses are jazz guys playing singer/songwriter music, so it's good.

[rcj]

i think it needs to be acknowledged that bonham invented and defined rock drumming. drummers playing rock stuff before him were coming essentially from a jazz approach and modifying it for rock. eg ginger baker or mitch mitchell. almost every drummer sat high above the kit and tapped down on it. bonham was the first (maybe carmine appice gets a mention) to sit low on the drums and play into them. he was the heaviest drummer of all time because his kick and snare could sit so far back on the beat. he never rushed.

the fact that so many drummers and engineers have sought to emulate his sound, simply by thinking 'make it big' and resorting to reverbs etc might be reason to argue the 'ruin of rock and roll,' but it's a bit lame to dump that on bonham and led zeppelin.

the common flaw of rock is emulation and a consequent lack of innovation. no one will ever sound like bonham - but even if they could, they shouldn't want to.

[Mark Alan Miller]

Ok, then, what about drum sounds like on "Rumors"? Discuss?

[joeysimms]

i think it needs to be acknowledged that bonham invented and defined rock drumming. drummers playing rock stuff before him were coming essentially from a jazz approach and modifying it for rock. eg ginger baker or mitch mitchell...

Hmmm.. what about Earl Palmer? Listen to Little Richard's 'Keep a knockin' and then LZ's 'Rock n' roll'.

[matyas]

I listened to Belle & Sebastian's "Dylan in the Movies" and it's such a refreshing drum sound (though not new to indie music). The lightness of that drumming really brings out a whole nother element in the music.

B & S (especially the older stuff) is great. They're pretty much the antithesis of everything people complain about being wrong with modern pop on this board. Brilliant songrwiting and musicianship, no "mixed for the car" high-end harshness, dynamic interest. Their records sound "warm" in a way that makes you actually feel like that word means something. And I totally love their drum sound.
And I also don't know that you can really credit John Bonham with inventing rock drumming. I agree that most earlier drummers were coming from more of a jazz/swing background (which may have something to do with why I like a lot of older drummers), but what about Keith Moon? Or even Ringo? ("Tomorrow Never Knows", anyone?)

[Marlowe]

Maybe you can start the revolution by not recording drums that way.

you make a good case.

You want details? All right.

Pre-Zep: drums sounded like drums, and were mixed together with the other instruments.

Post-Zep: everyone gets a hard-on over "how huge the drums sound, dude". And if you like drums that sound like cannons and are mixed loud enough to supplant just about everything else.

Rantings of a bitter bass player? Perhaps. That doesn't make me wrong.

[KennyLusk]

What about those who have so righteously perpetuated Huge Drums on rock records?

i.e., Alex Van Halen/Ted Templeman

and Phil Rudd/Mutt Lange

I just don't get the point of the thread. Sorry.

Bonham was a HUGE dummer and Jimmy Page and Eddie Kramer tried to capture that explosive sound as best they could. If you were producer/engineer for Zeppelin's first record wouldn't you be trippin' on Bonham's sound too? You'd be a liar if you said "no".

[Mark]

The Bonham sound suits some styles of music, but not all. It's producers and engineers who insist on a one size fits all solution that are the problem

[joeysimms]

I think the point of the thread is room-mic-ambient-huge drums sounds taking precedence over songs. Don't blame the engineer though..

[Derrick]

the common flaw of rock is emulation and a consequent lack of innovation.

Well, there it is... it took 5 pages, but here's the real answer. A vexing urge drove a troll/youngster to see if he could stir up the board with this post, but in true Tape Op fashion a reality surfaces.

[jeddypoo]

this thread has become a pulsating quagmire of Cyclopean horror. Surely, the undying, sightless hands of the The Old Ones wrought it. N'garraz sheb Yog-Sothoth!

[JGriffin]

Akei! Akei! Klaato Sothoth C'thugha!