Priorities, priorities.. Mics or pre's?

theBaldfather · Post by **theBaldfather** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:21 pm

Hey all,

I'm looking to spend around 800 bucks to beef up my little recording system a bit. I'd like to have the capabilities to have a good stereo track, so I'm considering either buying two decent mics, or two good preamps. My current mics right now are some cheapo mxl's, 57's and the usual. My pres are the ones that come in the presonus firepod. For preamps was looking at the hamptone pre's that you can build yourself. For microphones I'm not sure, just two good all purpose condensers. I would have to use them for overheads, vocals, and whatever else I needed. Any thoughts or recommendations? I'm pretty new and appreciate the input.

P.S. I'm gonna buy the hamptones sooner or later.. just not sure about priorities. Also do any of you have thoughts on the tube model vs. the JFET for all purpose recording?

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:35 pm

For 2 channels of all-purpose pre that would leave you room for a decent pair of mics and all under $800 the ART MPA Gold is blowing out at sweetwater and musician's friend right now for $300 - that's a killer deal IMO. That leaves you with $500 for 2 AT3035's and some spare tubes for the pre. The EHX 12AY7 is a killer deal at $189 a channel also. There's alot of ways you can go with that price range but those are my faves that do alot for me.

John Jeffers · Post by **John Jeffers** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:38 pm

Spend it all on the best mics you can find in your price range. Having more and better mics is always a good thing. I think a pair of AT4033's is right around $800, and they are great mics.

Madguitrst · Post by **Madguitrst** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:10 pm

In general, I think it's best when money is spent so that the signal chain is comparable. That being said, I think mics are probably the link that will have the greatest effect.

$800 is not an easy budget to work with for all things. So..........
I'd concentrate on mics.
If the preamps in the presonus are comparable to their standalone preamps they're not bad....and buying more preamps in that range will not likely give you the benefit of a better mic(s).

I have to differ with the AT3035 and AT4033.
I have had an AT4033 since early on and I am not a big fan on vocals.
I'd sell mine if I could get something decent for it.
I don't really like the AT3035. I just find it too grainy.
I do like the AT4040, and of course, the AT4050 is a very good all around mic. Those two are not very colored.

Before making any recommendations, it would be good to know what you have and do/don't like about it and what you would like from your new mic(s).

The MXL V69ME is a good tube sounding mic for little $$$.
I mentioned the AT4040 and AT4050.
The Studio Projects B1 is a steal and also a good all purpose mic.
Although they don't get many raves in the forums, I think the Rode NTK is a steal these days. You can get them for around $350.
Some people dig the ADK Vienna and Hamburg a lot but I haven't used them.

For $800 you can probably get an NTK, V69ME and an AT4040 and cover a lot of bases well.

Some people will argue against that and I understand.

If you can get up around $1,000 you can get a mic like one of the Pelusos, which I would highly recommend if you could swing it.

Just some thoughts...........

Good luck.

theBaldfather · Post by **theBaldfather** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:12 pm

Thanks for the input. I checked out the NTK, V69ME and AT4040. They all look very nice. I record most rock and aggressive music, and I'm a big fan of powerful without necessarily being totally pristine. Has anyone had experence with the V69ME or the AT 4040? Opinions? Would the V69ME be suited for overheads on drums?

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:47 pm

A 57 with a neve 1073: great.

A 57 with a poop log mic pre: poop log mic pre sound.

Having great mic pre's come into your life is like getting a whole new mic collection.

Having BOTH is the goal, but having a "bottleneck" at the mic pre is the worst place in the chain to incur noise, limited bandwidth, no headroom.... etc....etc...

A decent dynamic microphone with a great mic pre will be more pleasing to me almost every time over a good microphone and a poopy pre.

As always: YOU are the most important part of the chain. Dont blame the gear....

dither · Post by **dither** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:02 pm

joel hamilton wrote:A 57 with a neve 1073: great.

A 57 with a poop log mic pre: poop log mic pre sound.

Having great mic pre's come into your life is like getting a whole new mic collection.

Having BOTH is the goal, but having a "bottleneck" at the mic pre is the worst place in the chain to incur noise, limited bandwidth, no headroom.... etc....etc...

A decent dynamic microphone with a great mic pre will be more pleasing to me almost every time over a good microphone and a poopy pre.

As always: YOU are the most important part of the chain. Dont blame the gear....

So what's a good Poor-Man's pre?

pandatone · Post by **pandatone** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:08 pm

yeah, i have to go with pre's first.

you could get a hamptone FET.
then, *personally*, 2 budget ribbons. the front, nice and open, the back, narrow and more aggressive..
and it would open up the mics you have already.. joel is right.

panda

lyman · Post by **lyman** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:20 pm

dither wrote:
joel hamilton wrote:A 57 with a neve 1073: great.

A 57 with a poop log mic pre: poop log mic pre sound.

Having great mic pre's come into your life is like getting a whole new mic collection.

Having BOTH is the goal, but having a "bottleneck" at the mic pre is the worst place in the chain to incur noise, limited bandwidth, no headroom.... etc....etc...

A decent dynamic microphone with a great mic pre will be more pleasing to me almost every time over a good microphone and a poopy pre.

As always: YOU are the most important part of the chain. Dont blame the gear....
So what's a good Poor-Man's pre?

there was lots of talk of cheap gear not too long ago:
click here for the thread

tsw · Post by **tsw** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:14 pm

dither wrote:So what's a good Poor-Man's pre?

Joel: I'm hoping you'll address this. I tend to keep track of your opinions, and I'm not sure I've heard you weigh in on this. If you had a (relatively) small amount of money to spend on a good mic pre, what would it be?

Scodiddly · Post by **Scodiddly** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

Definitely microphones.

Let's see, you're looking to upgrade from the usual cheap mics. Question number one is what are your sources? Screamo vocalists (some kind of big dynamic?), an all-mandolin-and-harp sextet (nice condensors), or what?

Some interesting options:
1. The Oktava Mk-012 (the Russian, not Chinese version). Great little mics, very flat response.
2. Cheap ribbons such as the PPA, Shinybox, etc.
3. Less common dynamics which can sometimes be found used at a decent price - the old EV models, Sennheisers such as the MD431, MD441.
4. Mid-priced large condensors - some pretty solid mics to be had for under $500. Especially look around for used ones from companies like CAD, Stedman, etc.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:29 am

For "around 800 bucks" as it says in the first page, you could get yourself:

A Sage SE-1 class A discrete mic pre. Amazing mic pre.

4 channels of sytek. Pretty great mic pre.

2 channels of electro harmonix 12AY7. These will really breathe some life into your vocals and more.... You will have about 400 dollars left over after buying TWO of these. Amazing to me still. When I was Beta testing that pre, I figured it was going to cost like 400 dollars or more. Nope. 200.... crazy.

Those are the three just off the top of my head.

It is sort of worth saving for something really good. The better the pre, the more useful your entire mic collection gets. Really. So that is worth it to me.
Check out the Sage pre's. They really open up the mics and say hellooo......

ram3n · Post by **ram3n** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:08 am

I've seen this very thing discussed several times on various boards, and I'm of the philosophy that a decent mic (ie 57 or similar) with a great preamp is better than an great mic with a not so good preamp... as Joel suggested.

When I began to upgrade my studio gear, the first thing I did was get some better preamps. I bought a Sytek, then built a pair of API 312s and a pair of Neve 1272s. So that's 8 kick ass preamps in my opinion, with each type having a very different character. Man, that made such a difference. My drum sounds were 10x improved. For my drum micing, I'm using nothing fancy. Beyer M80 and M201s, Sennheiser MD421s, and some modded Octava MK-012 as overheads. And perhaps an inexpensive ribbon as a room mic. Using the same mics before and after the preamp upgrades is like night and day.

When I improved my preamps, it's as if I got a whole new mic collection. Some mics I hated of guitars began to sound much less thin and wimpy with a good preamp. Don't get me wrong, I understand the importance of great mics, but since one killer mic won't always work in all situations, I usually just rent mics for certain tasks, ie vocals.

Just my opinion.

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:18 am

dither wrote:
So what's a good Poor-Man's pre?

symetrix sx-202. $100-$150

luckybastard · Post by **luckybastard** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:34 am

if you have shitty pres, i say go for the preamp. a really good preamp changed the game for me once i heard the mics i already had(57's oktava 219's, 012's, vintage ev)through them. a great pre will make almost any mic much more than useable.

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Priorities, priorities.. Mics or pre's?

Priorities, priorities.. Mics or pre's?

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