cymbal bleed in vocal mic is killing my drumsound!

[kdownes]

so i set up for a jazz session this week, really easy quintet, all live, no over dubs. got all the instruments sounding good before the singer arrived. set up a vocal mic (mouse>la610) and set some average levels to judge the amount of bleed that i would be getting. i moved the mic around a bit to make use of the rejection point then waited for the vocalist to arrive. come to find out, she has the softest voice (though very nice) that i have ever heard. i literally had to crank the preamp all the way up! now i have a vocal track with tons of cymbal bleed in it. when i mute the vocal i really like the drum sound, but as soon as i drop it back in it turns into a washy mess.

any ideas on how to remedy this? drastic eq?

[Stephen B.]

In my experience there is really nothing that will work completely. You could try gating the vocal some, but if the cymbals are as loud as you say in it, it would probably be too obvious when there is singing. Drastic eq probably wouldn't work either, as most of the cymbals will live in the same range as the nice airy part of a female vocal.

Is retracking the vocal not an option? I know it would not be nearly as cool as all tracked live, but it may be the best way to go. Look at the bright side: if she really is as quiet as you say, you probably won't have a ghost vocal to worry about...

[bluesman]

I think a Dynamic mic would help in a recording situation like this. I find that dynamics hear less of the room & are much less fizzy. I recently recorded a blues band with a singing drummer. I put an SM58 in the drum booth for the drummer's scratch vocals. The scratch vocals turned out so good we keept them all & the drums sounded great. This guy wasn't a particularly strong vocalist either.
Another thing to consider is low passing the vocals to take some of the drum/cymbal bite out of the vocal track. This can work well & eliminates much of the need to de-esss. I would probably compress the vocal to bring it more forward & then low pass to taste. Try it, you'll like it!

good luck!

[RodC]

I think a Dynamic mic would help in a recording situation like this. I find that dynamics hear less of the room & are much less fizzy. I recently recorded a blues band with a singing drummer. I put an SM58 in the drum booth for the drummer's scratch vocals. The scratch vocals turned out so good we keept them all & the drums sounded great. This guy wasn't a particularly strong vocalist either.
Another thing to consider is low passing the vocals to take some of the drum/cymbal bite out of the vocal track. This can work well & eliminates much of the need to de-esss. I would probably compress the vocal to bring it more forward & then low pass to taste. Try it, you'll like it!

good luck!

I agree, 2 things often over looked, ppl look at what is in front of the singer (Back of Mic) for rejection and often ignore what is behind the singer. This is where a lot of your problem can come from, make sure there is some high absorbing material BEHIND the singer, not a cement wall or a window. If you dont have foam look around for something soft in the room.

Also a small pannel 3 or 4 ft in front of the singer with some absorbing material on it can help.

Also is she monitoring with headphones? If that mix is not right they wont project.

[Rigsby]

Female vocalist though, it's going to ruin her sound if you low pass. Gating could work but yeah, it's going to sound wierd if she's very quiet and the cymbals hit in everytime she sings. I'd re-track if at all possible.

[???????]

Sorry for the bummer.

[mjau]

Not to be pedantic (actually, yeah, I guess I am), but regarding your title - drumsound (one word) is our venerable Tape Op moderator, and I cringe at the thought of vocal bleed actually destroying him. He's my only local source for borrowing at4047's, so let's keep him among the living.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

another vote for retracking if at all possible. everything else is gonna be variations on the shit sandwich.

[puls]

This could be completely whacked, but, what if you took the drum overheads, copy the track, put it out of phase, and try to use that at various levels/eq/high pass/whatever to cancel out the bleed on the vocal track. I've never actually done this, but short of retracking the vocals, that's what i'd try.

jwp

[darjama]

what about some noise reduction on the vocals, using a cymbal hit w/o vocal as the noise sample? It might get a little funky, but it's worth a shot. Try it on a small section, running it through a 2-3 times with a low level of noise reduction.

Between noise reduction and some multiband compression and/or EQ, you might be able to lick it.

[I'm Painting Again]

just talk to the band..say this is the problem..what would you guys like to do about it..we could do over the vocals leave the washy cymbals, etc. etc. etc.

who knows maybe they will like the "washy mess"..people have different tastes..but most importantly be honest and upfront about the problem..work it out with them..both of you should have the same goal to make the best record possible..you live you learn you work hard and try your best and hopefully come off with something of beauty..

[drumsound]

Not to be pedantic (actually, yeah, I guess I am), but regarding your title - drumsound (one word) is our venerable Tape Op moderator, and I cringe at the thought of vocal bleed actually destroying him. He's my only local source for borrowing at4047's, so let's keep him among the living.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

To the original poster, I agree retracking is probably best. You might want to also consider not using the overheads you recorded and see if you can use the vocal mic as your cymbal mic. It's a long shot but I'd at listen to it...

[kdownes]

Not to be pedantic (actually, yeah, I guess I am), but regarding your title - drumsound (one word) is our venerable Tape Op moderator, and I cringe at the thought of vocal bleed actually destroying him. He's my only local source for borrowing at4047's, so let's keep him among the living.

i will keep him alive...

for now.

thanks for all of the advice. i dont think that retracking is an option. ive tried muting the vocal, but being that it was a very small room and everyone was standing very close, there is still a bit of a ghost vocal. i wouldnt mind, but she never sings the same thing twice.

[???????]

i think there have been enough ideas here to keep you busy for awhile. Who knows that out of phase overheads thing might be just the ticket. Any of it is worth a try. I bet through some combination of things you can maybe salvage it, or at least put lots of mayo on that shit sandwich.

I agree about listening to the vocal mic as your cymbal mic. You never know!