Why have things tanked?

msmith4060 · Post by **msmith4060** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:07 pm

Why have things tanked so bad---recording wise? Pro Tools sounds like shit and Im saying it....Bring it on....Converters, clocks, engineers, bands,......blah....blah...blah.......Why?

pandatone · Post by **pandatone** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:55 pm

i guess why does anyone care? use and do what you need and want to do to make what you want. where do all these "rules" come from. and who decided what sounds and doesn't sound good? could there be an interview with this person in tapeop sometime?
i mean really. just make stuff. who cares how?

panda

meblumen · Post by **meblumen** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:21 pm

I think the last 10 years or so have seen a lot of changes. For a long time everything was done in the analog realm on tape. Most people who recorded went to big "pro" studios and even buying home recording gear wasn't cheap. Then things started to go digital, an explosion of cheap gear came on the market and the internet sprung up. Now you got countless people recording on bits of gear here and there, more often computers now then tape and then distributing their music to the masses. I don't think it's a bad thing but computer recording technology still has ways to go and is improving. Many people recording today didn't study anything related to music/audio/electronics, didn't intern in a studio or spend significant time studying the craft. That probably won't change, but I would rather have people having fun, cranking out crappy recordings and sharing them with their friends then not making music. The cheap gear kinda goes hand in hand with that. Ultimately, sometimes things got to get worse to get better, but I don't think things are so bad and really, if a songs good, it will come out regardless how it's recorded.

red cross · Post by **red cross** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:42 am

Pro Tools sounds like shit and Im saying it....Bring it on....Converters, clocks, engineers, bands,......blah....blah...blah.......Why?

Because people use it to record alot of shitty music. Oh well. Give the people what they want eh.

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:40 am

the recording medium is only as good as the user. if you don't have an ear, or aren't creative, or the band sucks, or the players can't tune their instruments, or your mic placement is bad..... then the recording will not sound good on tape or pro-tools. i've made some really cool recordings on pro-tools that i'm very proud of, and MANY others can share that same enthusiasm. i don't buy into the whole tape is the be-all-end-all of sonic excellence and "pro-tools digital sucks" argument. i've heard amazing (and shitty) records made on both formats and the reason had more to do with the musicians and the talent behind the screen or console than spinning reels or a piece of software. i do think there's a certain appeal and aesthetic to tape that's hard to replicate with digital, but that certainly doesn't mean that digital recording "sucks".

one of my favorite things about recording at home with a very modest set-up is that you have to learn to exploit your limitations, which can lead to some amazing levels of creativity. also, as you become better at what you do, chances are you've been saving your pennies for that crucial piece of gear you've been drooling over, then once you get it you're ready to better your recordings with it.

pro-tools is only part of the recording chain. and to me it's a powerful tool if used correctly.

-Ryan

LVC_Jeff · Post by **LVC_Jeff** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:44 am

I feel pumped because if I told someone 15 years ago that I'd be able to digitally record 5 hours of audio into a plastic rectangle the size of a textbook, and then have it sound better (arguably) than their DAT machines, they'd laugh their ass off at me

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:59 am

one of my favorite things about recording at home with a very modest set-up is that you have to learn to exploit your limitations, which can lead to some amazing levels of creativity. also, as you become better at what you do, chances are you've been saving your pennies for that crucial piece of gear you've been drooling over, then once you get it you're ready to better your recordings with it.

Amen.

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:08 am

You left out one option: empowered.

I treat my DAW like a tape machine, I dont count on doing a bunch of edits and I encourage all bands to provide their best performance. Even treating it like a tape machine I have found many benifits

Want a new track, righ click insert new track. Imagine the cost of that with a tape machine.

Want to compress 24 channels with a different type of compressor, but dont have that many in the rack?

Want 24 of the same compressors, buy one plug and insert to your hearts content. Like 99.9999% of the ppl who listen to your stuff on myspace with that crappy player can tell the difference.

Want to record that guitar dry and wet just incase, In the tape enviroment I see too many ppl not recording what the would ultimatly due to their lack of tracks. How many home studios have 44+ channels for tape??

Want to make an EXACT copy of ALL the songs you have recorded for a band and send them off, that would take about 5 mins with no loss. How would you do that with tape?!?! Now make and EXACT copy of ALL your recordings for an offsite backup....

Just think of the daw as a tape based, forget about all the stuff it can do that tape cant and you STILL will find many many benifits to folks like me who cant afford 100 outboard units.

I still believe in outboard stuff, just take a look at my equip list. I still believe in lots of vintage equipment, I love modding/building old preamps but I would rather spend time recording and not bouncing stuff from tape to tape cause I only have 4 tracks.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:33 am

msmith4060 wrote:Why have things tanked so bad---recording wise? Pro Tools sounds like shit and Im saying it....Bring it on....Converters, clocks, engineers, bands,......blah....blah...blah.......Why?

um i dunno. i don't use protools. i have nice converters. some ok mics. i try and put them in agreeable places. like in front of good musicians playing cool music in a nice sounding room. shit sounds great if i do say so myself.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:51 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
msmith4060 wrote:Why have things tanked so bad---recording wise? Pro Tools sounds like shit and Im saying it....Bring it on....Converters, clocks, engineers, bands,......blah....blah...blah.......Why?
um i dunno. i don't use protools. i have nice converters. some ok mics. i try and put them in agreeable places. like in front of good musicians playing cool music in a nice sounding room. shit sounds great if i do say so myself.

i DO use protools. i have ok converters. some nice mics. i try and put them in agreeable places. like in front of good musicians playing cool music in a nice sounding room. shit sounds great if i do say so myself.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:03 am

yeah it's pretty simple really.

expensive, but simple.

bocmaxima · Post by **bocmaxima** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:28 am

Non-destructive editing is one of the coolest things that has happened in the last 10 years. I mainly preach it in Video, but I don't understand why people would not want a tool like that in their arsenal.

IMO, it all comes down to options, and the more options you have availible to you, the better. I personally love 4-track, and love analog tape, but discrediting ProTools or other digital means is just being cynical. Everyone here seems to agree that you can make an excellent record with next to nothing, as long as you have some know how. The reason PT and digital gets such a bad rap I think is because the gear is so easy to obtain and maintain that you have every jackass in the world running a Digi-001, not knowing wtf he is doing, clamoring that he is a recording engineer. Dont let bad people give the gear a bad rap. On that same note, dont let the old cynics bully you out of digital gear.

I am a fan of a mix of old an new tech, but if someone wants to use triggered drums and only protools, I can definately see the benefits. As long as you can see the benefits and shortcomings of the gear youre using, you can work with/around it.

Im done babbling, lol

justinf · Post by **justinf** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:17 pm

my things, without question, are better than ever. And I record with a computer.

audiogeek1 · Post by **audiogeek1** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:38 pm

Why have things tanked? I definitely blame Pro Tools because if you have it you have to make things sound awful. That is the rule. If you use another computer program it sounds soooo much better. The soundblaster A to Ds sound better than Pro Tools converters. Pro Tools is the devil. The operator has no choice it has to sound bad and over edited. We do it because we can.

But if I record to 8 track cassette it sounds better. It is analog after all. And don't we all agree that analog is better. And the 8 track cassette is the ultimate analog format.

All joking aside. I definitely do not think pro tools is the evil enemy. I like many others resist over editing. I will do minor things to help when a performance is awesome with some minor fixes. Now I do think Pro Tools sounds good. But then again I do use Euphonix converters instead of PTs and an apogee clock along a Digi sync. This i feel sounds great. Also I do not mix inside the computer.

My opinion on the reason things are tanking is that there are too many things to weed through to find something good. Years ago there were not as many releases and so there were less to go through to find something you like. Now because it is so cheap and we have the web finding something worthwhile is hard. There is just sooooo much crap out there. Stuff that is not real. People making bad songs that are taking up web space.

Then the other thing is music is having to compete with games. Games are winning. You get hours and hours of enjoyment from a game. A mediocre CD will get you a few listens.

Just my opinions.

Mike

percussion boy · Post by **percussion boy** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:52 pm

audiogeek1 wrote:But if I record to 8 track cassette it sounds better. It is analog after all. And don't we all agree that analog is better. And the 8 track cassette is the ultimate analog format.

You scared me for a minute. Latency in my irony processor.

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