any RAT pedal experts out there?

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:08 pm

i have a old rat pedal - called "THE RAT" - big box - no led etc..

but it's dying and i am trying to find another one that has the same chip. apparently at some point they switched the chip and the tone is not as sweet on the new ones.

so yesterday i found a used one in a local music store - bought it and brought it home thinking it was identical - but the insides look a little
different and the sticker on the back says "vintage rat".

can anyone tell me what the differences between these models are?

thanks!

j

floid · Post by **floid** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:04 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Co_Rat
http://www.muzique.com/fx/fat-rat.htm
http://cgi.ebay.com/LM308N-ic-PROCO-Rat ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Modded-Proco-RA ... dZViewItem

my old rat has been dying a slow and painful death for the past 2 or 3 years. i'd never want to gig w/ it, but it's great for recording - sometimes i'll spend half an hour just switching the thing on and off, waiting for it to malfunction in exactly the right way.

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:22 pm

wicked! thanks - they are identical!

Rodgre · Post by **Rodgre** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:11 pm

I wouldn't call myself a Rat expert, but I own and have worked on quite a few of them. It's one of my all-time favorite "rock" distortion pedals. It rarely doesn't sound awesome to me.

So my first question is how is it that they are "dying"? In my experience, they either work or they don't, and if they don't, 99% of the time it's the cheap switch they put in them. Otherwise, it's still probably something minor. (Floid, I am willing to bet a subscription to Tape Op that yours is suffering from the bad switch syndrome.)

I would be very surprised to find out that the op-amp IC is the culprit in a dying Rat.

As for the varients in the Rat circuit, the real difference between the real vintage Rat (large box, no LED) and what we call the Rat 2 (smaller box, no LED or later with an LED) is the type of capacitors they used. I'm forgetting which is which right now, but I think the original had tantalum caps, and the Rat 2 has standard electrolytics. As the original Rat aged, the caps sounded different.... nothing to get all "$400 on Ebay" about. The current "Vintage" Rat model uses the same circuit board and everything as the Rat 2. I'm not even certain if they use the right capacitors in it or not, just that the box is bigger and therefore has way more wasted space inside.

Then on to the Turbo Rat. This beast is basically a standard issue Rat/Rat 2 with different diodes in the clipping section. (Zeners maybe?). For about 20 cents and half an hour of workbench time, you can replace your two clipping diodes with anything you like (LEDs are cool in clipping circuits too, especially in Boss DS-1s!) to have a new tone.

I never noticed the LM308N op-amp to be incredibly special or crucial to the "great Rat tone" but if you're that obsessed with authenticity, you're a nut to buy one for $11 from some jerk on Ebay. Small Bear has them for $4 and Steve at Small Bear is probably a nicer guy than the dude on Ebay.

Roger

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:44 pm

The rat is cool..when I filmed the Wedding Present DVD the guitarist was using two in a row..

space_ryerson · Post by **space_ryerson** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:50 pm

The turbo rat I owned used led's for clipping.

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:22 pm

rat 2 was my first guitar pedal. My mom got it for me when i was 15. 12 years later it still gets used weekly, lately sitting on top of the mix board with vocals aux'ed to it. My guitar rig was studio 335-volume pedal-rat2-mig100 in the high gain channel for many years.

apropos of nothing · Post by **apropos of nothing** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:42 am

They also make a pretty wicked preamp for when you want the thickest tone possible.

E-Rock · Post by **E-Rock** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:29 am

I have a Keeley Rat. Killer. I think it is modded to be true to the original, plus it has a toggle for some other sounds, like a really mean boost.

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:24 am

I've always desired the two channel rack mountable version as well.

floid · Post by **floid** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:43 pm

Rodgre wrote:(Floid, I am willing to bet a subscription to Tape Op that yours is suffering from the bad switch syndrome.)

you'd win your bet. i actually wish i could put two switches on it, on that works right and one that sticks halfway. it's like it makes the fuzz more wiry

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any RAT pedal experts out there?

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