Cascade Ribbon FatHead Mod?

getreel · Post by **getreel** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:29 pm

Has anyone tried the Fat Head with different impedance settings? Wonder if that would help?...

theonlymagicalpig · Post by **theonlymagicalpig** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:46 am

Hi!

From what I've read and if I remember well, a thinner ribbon would result in more natural frequency response. I don't know the price for changing it by a professional but I don't think it would be worth considering the price of the mic...

Victor.

crookedsound · Post by **crookedsound** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:59 am

Well, I do already own the mic, so if anyone has an idea roughly how much, or can suggest a place (or themselves) to get a thinner ribbon put in...I welcome the input.
Thanks!

Marik · Post by **Marik** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:15 am

crookedsound wrote:Well, I do already own the mic, so if anyone has an idea roughly how much, or can suggest a place (or themselves) to get a thinner ribbon put in...I welcome the input.
Thanks!

PM me or write to:
ribbonmic(at)comcast(dot)net

crookedsound · Post by **crookedsound** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:51 pm

Hey Marik...

I tried emailing you. I'm at eric@crookedsound.com if you could just drop me a line. I'm just curious as to what it would cost to get it looked at to see if it is indeed too thick of a ribbon, then replacement cost to put a thinner one in.

Thanks.

Eric

Marik · Post by **Marik** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:21 pm

crookedsound wrote:Hey Marik...

I tried emailing you. I'm at eric@crookedsound.com if you could just drop me a line. I'm just curious as to what it would cost to get it looked at to see if it is indeed too thick of a ribbon, then replacement cost to put a thinner one in.

Thanks.

Eric

I screwed up my own email

it should be:
ribbonmic(at)comcast(dot)net

I will email you

littlesongs · Post by **littlesongs** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:34 pm

Jon Ulrigg is a nice fellow and knows his ribbon mics. I got an estimate for a re-ribbon of an old RCA paintbrush of $135. Thankfully, the mic was fine, so I did not need it. You might ask him -- or get one of his already modded microphones. http://www.shinybox.com/

tenchijin2. · Post by **tenchijin2.** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:13 am

Marik wrote:
Beside transformer swap I remachined the motor, and re-ribboned it with 1.5 micron ribbon. I measured the original as 6 micron (vs. advertised 2.5um), which is way too thick for use in ANY ribbon microphone.

Hi Marik,

Based on this comment I contacted Cascade Microphones. The CEO Michael Chiriac personally told me that the element is 2.5 micron, and sent me a link to a photo which is captioned as a random element measurement. The dial indicator shows .0025". Obviously photo can be staged, but it would seem a pretty dangerous business practice to advertise something so blatantly false!

So, there is either some confusion or someone is lying! Since I'm considering buying a Fathead this is important to me. Can you supply any further evidence that the ribbon was, in fact, not as advertised?

Since I live about an hour away from the Cascade Mic office I'd be willing (if anyone's interested) to go there and ask to see some random samples myself. I have some machine experience and am quite familiar with a dial indicator so I would be able to get reliable evidence.

I consider this matter very important. Thanks!

Feedback · Post by **Feedback** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:39 am

Well, I can tell you the Fatheads sound awesome. I have stereo pair and I don't have a clue what the thickness is on the ribbon, nor do I care. My ears like 'em and they work well on many sources.

Marik · Post by **Marik** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:56 am

tenchijin2. wrote:
Marik wrote:
Beside transformer swap I remachined the motor, and re-ribboned it with 1.5 micron ribbon. I measured the original as 6 micron (vs. advertised 2.5um), which is way too thick for use in ANY ribbon microphone.
Based on this comment I contacted Cascade Microphones. The CEO Michael Chiriac personally told me that the element is 2.5 micron, and sent me a link to a photo which is captioned as a random element measurement. The dial indicator shows .0025". Obviously photo can be staged, but it would seem a pretty dangerous business practice to advertise something so blatantly false!

So, there is either some confusion or someone is lying! Since I'm considering buying a Fathead this is important to me. Can you supply any further evidence that the ribbon was, in fact, not as advertised?

In fact, Michael Chiriac contacted me himself regarding this matter, assuring what might have happened is that the microphone under the question was from the first butch.

I did not have chance to check how true this statement is and unfortunately, did not take a note of a S/N, unlike what I do with "classic" microphones.

Re: dial indicator.
Using micrometers is not either proper or accurate way of measuring ribbon thickness and can be manipulated even without knowing of doing that.

Best, M

tenchijin2. · Post by **tenchijin2.** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:52 am

Then what are you using to measure the ribbon?

joelmoore · Post by **joelmoore** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:59 pm

Then what are you using to measure the ribbon?

Good question.

I have a sequential pair of FatHead II's with stock transformers and love them. But I've also never used a mic that costs more than my rent. So I'm no bellwether.

Marik · Post by **Marik** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:45 pm

tenchijin2. wrote:Then what are you using to measure the ribbon?

Weighing it and then calculating the thickness.

tenchijin2. · Post by **tenchijin2.** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:56 pm

I'm really puzzled now. To calculate the thickness based on dimensions you'd need to know
1. the length and width accurate to .0005"
2. the exact alloy of the part (the precise mixture of metals), and
3. the exact densities of the alloys involved to an incredibly exact number.

To do anything less would be to introduce a very significant error into the calculation.

So you'd need to have a method of measuring the dimensions of the ribbon ACCURATELY.

In which case you'd be able to accurately measure the thickness with the same device.

littlesongs · Post by **littlesongs** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:19 pm

Speaking of making the Fathead into an even better microphone -- here is the very latest from Cascade on the brand new Gomez. Not on topic per se, but stirring evidence that modding existing products for the better often creates curiousity in a company. If you are refining it enough to truly make the microphone superior to the competition in that price range, well, folks might get more than just curious. I suppose one could file this in the "results" section of DIY.

Olympia, WA. January 9th, 2008 ? Michael Chiriac, CEO of award-winning Cascade Microphones has launched the "Gomez" Michael Joly Edition ribbon microphone. The new "Gomez" ribbon mic, completely hand-assembled and certified at the Cascade Microphones lab in Olympia, Washington is the result of a new collaboration between two industry leaders.

Cascade Microphones CEO Michael Chiriac asked Michael Joly - a trusted source of microphone modifications - to approve the design, specifications and manufacturing of the new "Gomez" microphone. Chiriac said: "After receiving a 2007 PAR Excellence Award for our FAT HEAD II ribbon mic at AES in October I wanted to push the quality envelope for ribbon mics even further. As Michael Joly is a well-known and trusted name in microphone upgrades I contacted him to see if we might work together on a design and quality assurance program for a new ribbon mic."

The new Cascade Microphones "Gomez" Michael Joly Edition ribbon mic uses a short, single-ribbon motor for broad vertical and horizontal pickup free from the off-axis coloration found in dual ribbon mics. The structure of the "Gomez" ribbon motor provides a tailored high frequency response ideal for guitar cab use or vintage-sounding "soft top" vocals. In a new innovation, the ribbon motor is installed in an optimized headbasket ? a round, single layer grille designed to offer an open sound with reduced internal standing waves. Michael Joly notes: "While there are many design features that contribute to great microphone performance, part of my success upgrading microphones can be attributed to the use of a single-layer grille. A single layer grille reduces standing wave reflections between the grille and transducer to allow recordings with greater clarity".

The Cascade Microphones "Gomez" Michael Joly Edition features a renowned Lundahl ribbon mic transformer, custom PC board, high-quality Switchcraft XLR connector and Evidence Audio ? LYRIC HG wire with IGL copper. The microphone is packaged in a sturdy and attractive aluminum case with shock mount. It comes with a signed and dated "Certificate of Performance" documenting a multi-step inspection, assembly and performance approval process - including certification of proper ribbon tension.

The ?Gomez? Michael Joly Edition ribbon microphone will be available for $599 exclusively from www.CascadeMicrophones.com and www.MichaelJolyEditions.com starting Jan 28th, 2008.

Michael Joly is a humble 21st century renaissance man and has been a godsend to many of us here on the TOMB. His refinements have benefited the recording musician as well as the microphone industry, and this partnership seems like a logical progression. I think that the new Gomez looks like a trophy and that may portend good things to come.

I am definitely curious to find out what folks think of this microphone when it finds itself in some studios. Perhaps there will be a shootout at NAMM that tells us more in a few weeks, but I am excited to see this development nonetheless. Of course, you could get an existing Fathead performing better through Oktavamod too. Michael has worked on a bunch of these microphones and obviously knows Cascade from the inside out. I bet he will be able to clear up any questions about the ribbons.

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