How do you deal with phase issues?

[gutsofgold]

If a phase-coherent mic setup on drums isn't possible, whats the next best thing to make sure every thing lines up right?

(And I dont have cash for that IBP phase tool...)

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Check everything in mono as you go. If you end up with a phase issue after tracking you can try sliding tracks around to put them in phase (but tthis might create bigger problems) or just sttart muting problem tracks. You don't realy need 20 mics on the kit. Worst case - pick a mono over head, kick and snare. Add others if they work.

[cgarges]

Set up mics. Audition polarity reverse on each channel. Whichever position sounds best, use it. If neither one sounds good, move the mic. Do this every time you add a mic, with all the mics.

That's the simple way to do it.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[gutsofgold]

So after I set my mics, I record a test and sum all the tracks to a single mono track? Sorry if I read that wrong but I dont really understand.

[djimbe]

So you're recording drums. Bring up your overhead mics and pan them both hard to one side. Listen outa that one monitor. Flip polarity of one and judge the change. If it's kooky both ways, it's time to move a mic. Repeat 'till you're happy. Then add another mic to that single monitor and repeat. It takes time. It will be right when you've learned what to listen for and you have some idea what to move. Practice is key here...

[Brian]

If there is a mono button on your board use it everytime. If there isn't one figure something out. Don't record stuff out of phase.

[JdJ]

djimbe's got it-

By panning everything to one speaker, you are summing the track in mono in real time. This process is prior to recording as you are listening to the drummer. If you are recording yourself, the matter gets a bit tricky. Then I would do the mono thing on playback, one mic at a time- flipping polarity and noticing the difference (even if you think it sounds good) on each channel as you add. You may need to drop tracks out as you add new ones, but make sure you end up comparing all of the individual tracks to each other. It's easy to see why a ton of drum mics creates phase hell if you're not careful!!

Good luck-

Josh

[Brian]

Get this book: Music Physics and Engineering.
It has a lot of stuff you need to know in it, like how to anticipate whether a mic will be in phase before auditioning it via placement. Lots of things can affect phase, differing electronics on a common signal, distance, diaphragm size, each affecting different aspects of he sound.

[joel hamilton]

If a phase-coherent mic setup on drums isn't possible, whats the next best thing to make sure every thing lines up right?

(And I dont have cash for that IBP phase tool...)

if you havent tracked yet, follow all the good advice above.

if it is already tracked:
Multiple release times on low ratio compression on multiple elements summed through some sort of other limiting device with yet another time constant applied.

Non linked compression, at low ratios. AGC's on some of the elements, expanders on others still, compression on others still...

you get dynamic movement of levels at different times across the drum channels, so the levels never sit in one static relationship.... you wind up with something that at least sounds like music again, if not a little od.. timbre wise. At that point, eq and/or gate (where appropriate).

To illustrate the concept...

try making a mult of one drum channel, like one of the OH's, then move one of the faders in time with the beat.... you dont really ever get the stuff to cancel altogether, as the mult's fader is always in motion, because of the compression time constants moving the amplitude with the beat.... this even applies to more subtle variations in phase cancellation. Has worked wonders for me on , um, "questionably" tracked stuff i have had to mix MANY times.

[Brian]

Sounds like protools fix it hell! Hours of sitting at the desk writing faders and assigning and writing automation on each channel and plugin just to get it fixed sorta.
Probly take less time to retrack, if you can't, another line of work maybe.

[Gabe]

All of the above suggestions are fantastic and i have used them over the years to get things in phase... but not anymore. If you have ever used more than two mics on anything you have get the Little Labs IBP (in-between phase). With this thing you merely set up the two mics you want to use and get each sounding amazing on the source separately. After that put one mic through this little device and sweep the phase until it is just right. I like to make the two mics sound totally out of phase, really thin and hollow and horrible, then i hit the 180 flip switch and hear the choir of angels sing.

Phase issues aren't always 180 out... this variable device accounts for all of those times when its in between.

-Gabe.

[Brian]

It's still not too late to pick up that book and read it. It's cheaper than any device, or, wasted time fixing, and if applied and perfected for at least these two things: quality recording of signal with techique and placement for "harmonius" phase relationships, you'll never "need" a box to fix it, time to fix it, but, that won't satisfy your "equipment junky jones".

[ledogboy]

Y'know,
Doesn't it seem like someone should be able to make a plug in that functions like the IBP? That would be way handy for remix work that comes in with phase issues...

[Brian]

delay plugin, %100 wet, small increments no dry signal on only one of the mics.
Shazam! Poof! Voila! Bam! Ka-Ching!

[drumsound]

All of the above suggestions are fantastic and i have used them over the years to get things in phase... but not anymore. If you have ever used more than two mics on anything you have get the Little Labs IBP (in-between phase). With this thing you merely set up the two mics you want to use and get each sounding amazing on the source separately. After that put one mic through this little device and sweep the phase until it is just right. I like to make the two mics sound totally out of phase, really thin and hollow and horrible, then i hit the 180 flip switch and hear the choir of angels sing.

Phase issues aren't always 180 out... this variable device accounts for all of those times when its in between.

-Gabe.

Yes, but the poster is talking about recording drum set. You'd need 3-10 of those boxes.

PLUS there's nothing wrong with learning good technique!