topaz/patchbay signal flow help please!

[Jon Nolan]

Gah! I hate exposing such ingnorance. but, you've gotta learn, right?

question #1:
on my topaz, does one mix via the tape in/monitor ins, or via the line ins?

I've never had the pleasure of having the option of mixing thru anything but line ins before, but the phase button doesn't affect the signal thru this input, and sometimes I discover phase weirdness after tracking. so then, line in's, yeah? no?

question #2
how would I patch in my EH12ay7 or a Hamptone to a 'bay?

I have a 16 channel snake coming in from my studio to the control room. do i dedicate one channel of that snake? but then, what if i want to use it on a vocal in my control room later? basically i'm looking for a scenario where I don't have to keep plugging and unplugging mic cables into it. the only way I can see how that wuld work, would be to patch it in directly to the patchbay, but I also thought phantom power wasn't supposed to be fed thru a bay, no? do i need some xlr patchbays or something? does this question make sense?

anyway, if you understand what I'm getting at, and explanation would be swell!

thanks in advance gang. patchbays. aaaagh. though I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

cheers,
Jon

[drumsound]

It depends on the console wether you can flip the polarity on the line inputs or not. On my console the polarity flip only works on the mic inputs, not on the line/tape ins.

You should be able to put your outboard pres on the patchbay. Make sure that when you set up the 'bay that you break the normal when you plug into the mic source so that the signal isn't going to the console pre and where ever you patch it. YOu can run phantom through a 'bay. Just be careflu to turn it off before un-patching/re-patching (on the inputs). I've made some big pops through my monitors and seen sparks when I forgot...

[Jon Nolan]

It depends on the console wether you can flip the polarity on the line inputs or not. On my console the polarity flip only works on the mic inputs, not on the line/tape ins.

mine works on both the mic and line ins, but not the tape ins. so with your console, tony, what do you do if a phase problem slips by you during tracking?

You should be able to put your outboard pres on the patchbay. Make sure that when you set up the 'bay that you break the normal when you plug into the mic source so that the signal isn't going to the console pre and where ever you patch it. YOu can run phantom through a 'bay. Just be careflu to turn it off before un-patching/re-patching (on the inputs). I've made some big pops through my monitors and seen sparks when I forgot...

good news!


thanks for the help

cheers,
Jon

[Doublehelix]

Tape ins for mixing. That is what they were designed for. You can use the "flip" button to get access to the faders and expanded EQ section (and yes, the phase button).

Pretty simple really, and it works perfectly.

[Jon Nolan]

Tape ins for mixing. That is what they were designed for. You can use the "flip" button to get access to the faders and expanded EQ section (and yes, the phase button).

Pretty simple really, and it works perfectly.

i thought that was the whole point of an "in-line" console, right? but i swear the phase button doesn't work with those inputs. i'll triple check later. any topaz users know? it's cool if thats the case, and i can just be hyper-sensitive to phase stuff while tracking. i just thought it was weird that it would be set up that way is all. thanks for the post!

cheers,
Jon

[Jon Nolan]

Tape ins for mixing. That is what they were designed for. You can use the "flip" button to get access to the faders and expanded EQ section (and yes, the phase button).

Pretty simple really, and it works perfectly.

aha! i see you have a topaz. so whay aren't my phase buttons working with the tape ins? is it pilot error?

[drumsound]

It depends on the console wether you can flip the polarity on the line inputs or not. On my console the polarity flip only works on the mic inputs, not on the line/tape ins.

mine works on both the mic and line ins, but not the tape ins. so with your console, tony, what do you do if a phase problem slips by you during tracking?

Most of what I mix I tracked so I'm checking for phase as I go. If I screwed something up, like the time I tracked a project without the console or monitors, I have a ploatiry reverse TT patch cable or I can patch into the mic in and use the pad and flip the polarity that way.

[Jon Nolan]

Most of what I mix I tracked so I'm checking for phase as I go. If I screwed something up, like the time I tracked a project without the console or monitors, I have a ploatiry reverse TT patch cable or I can patch into the mic in and use the pad and flip the polarity that way.

aha! there you go. thanks a bunch.

cheers,
jon

[cgarges]

I'm about 99% sure that the polarity reverse only works on the mic and line ins on the Topaz. If you have some issue that needs correcting, you can plug into the line input of that particular channel and use the polarity reverse then or you can use a polarity reversed cable (assuming your recorder has balanced outputs) to patch from the recorder to the console. I do this sort of thing all the time when I'm workign on a console where the tape ins won't reverse.

HOWEVER,

sometimes there is a difference in sound when using the tape ins versus line ins, so it may be worth listening and seeing which one sounds better to you and using those.

For me, a patchbay is almost useless if it's not fairly extensive and yes, it's fine to pass phantom power through a patchbay if everything's properly wired. If it were me, I'd have each channel of the snake terminate at the bay and then fully normal those points to the mic inputs on the console and normal the console's tape outs to the recorder inputs. The outboard pres should have their own points as well, so you can bypass the console pres by patching from the snake to the recorder inputs.

Hope this helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Doublehelix]

Well, maybe I am an idiot then! I could have sworn that the tape ins had polarity reversal on them, but it appears not.

As Chris states, I tend to take care of polarity issues at the tracking stage either with a polarity flip (180 degrees) or with IBPs for things in-between.

I really can't check right now either as we are in the middle of a massive construction project, and the entire studio is down for a few more weeks. Sorry about that.

[Jon Nolan]

I'm about 99% sure that the polarity reverse only works on the mic and line ins on the Topaz. If you have some issue that needs correcting, you can plug into the line input of that particular channel and use the polarity reverse then or you can use a polarity reversed cable (assuming your recorder has balanced outputs) to patch from the recorder to the console. I do this sort of thing all the time when I'm workign on a console where the tape ins won't reverse.

roger.

HOWEVER,

sometimes there is a difference in sound when using the tape ins versus line ins, so it may be worth listening and seeing which one sounds better to you and using those.

makes sense.

For me, a patchbay is almost useless if it's not fairly extensive and yes, it's fine to pass phantom power through a patchbay if everything's properly wired. If it were me, I'd have each channel of the snake terminate at the bay and then fully normal those points to the mic inputs on the console and normal the console's tape outs to the recorder inputs.

yep, i'm trying to work my way toward having all connections patched in in the next couple weeks. not exactly efficient, but it'll have to do. i recently picked up a couple bays that were previously wired for a 24 channel console/radar set up, with the right connectors, and are all (pre)soldered(!) and working great. so, console> recorder and recorder> console are good to go. just trying to patch in my outboard gear now, and i need to tie my snake in to a bay too. its slow going, but i can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

The outboard pres should have their own points as well, so you can bypass the console pres by patching from the snake to the recorder inputs.

so, should i have these set up half normalled? i'm wondering how one could monitor the signal without it still heading to the console. as in, mic comes into outboard pre, and out to recorder, while signal also goes to the appropriate channel on the board for cue mixes or whatever (and not back out to the recorder of course). no? how do i set up out board pres?

Hope this helps.

always chris, thanks for your continued generosity!

[cgarges]

[quote="Jon Nolan]

The outboard pres should have their own points as well, so you can bypass the console pres by patching from the snake to the recorder inputs.

so, should i have these set up half normalled? i'm wondering how one could monitor the signal without it still heading to the console. as in, mic comes into outboard pre, and out to recorder, while signal also goes to the appropriate channel on the board for cue mixes or whatever (and not back out to the recorder of course). no? how do i set up out board pres?[/quote]

This always confuses me when people ask about it. Why would you NOT want to monitor what's going to the RADAR (or other specified recording device)? Like, why does the mic pre signal have to be split? Why not just send the pre to the recorder and then listen to the recorder?

always chris, thanks for your continued generosity!

No problem.

Chris Garges
Charlotte. NC

[Jon Nolan]

This always confuses me when people ask about it. Why would you NOT want to monitor what's going to the RADAR (or other specified recording device)? Like, why does the mic pre signal have to be split? Why not just send the pre to the recorder and then listen to the recorder?

right! that makes sense i guess. up until now i never had the option of monitoring tape returns, so, i guess i had never thought of that. thanks again...

jon

[trodden]

Welcome to my hell.

Glad you got some patchbays already to go! the ones i just got are gonna need a lot of work

I have a soundtracs topaz as well. I mix through the tape ins and no, the polarity reverse does not work on the tape ins. only mic pre and line in.

This always confuses me when people ask about it. Why would you NOT want to monitor what's going to the RADAR (or other specified recording device)? Like, why does the mic pre signal have to be split? Why not just send the pre to the recorder and then listen to the recorder?

Some of us have latency issues and need to mult the outboard pre to the console for tracking monitoring and take the second one to the recording device cause if we monitor off of recording device (digi 001), we get the latency.


I currently am in the middle of this and have been for a long time. My snake from the live room comes into the control room and the first 7 channels go to my outboard pres and the rest to my board pres. If i want to switch between pres, i have to get up and go to the live room and plug the mic into a different channel of the snake. Makes comparing pres sometimea a pain in the ass, but i can't afford the cableing and patchbay for that yet.

i'm in the process of making a half normalled bay that leads from my pre amp outs to my A/D converters.

I currently have a bay half normalled, leading out of my D/A converters to the topaz tape ins.

I'm in the process of wiring up a bay for all of my compressors and effects.. until that is done, i'll be crawling around on my knees pluging shit in.

I also want a bay with my buss group outs, buss group inserts, main outs, monitor outs, etc as well.

I"m doing 1/4" long frame patchbays and its very expensive. one reason its taking me so long. I buy used bays and have to spend a lot of time cleaning up the previous solder and wiring cause NONE of them ever are wired up the way you need. Then spend more time wiring them up and taking my time on that since i'm slow.


patchbays... they're killing me.

[cgarges]

This always confuses me when people ask about it. Why would you NOT want to monitor what's going to the RADAR (or other specified recording device)? Like, why does the mic pre signal have to be split? Why not just send the pre to the recorder and then listen to the recorder?

Some of us have latency issues and need to mult the outboard pre to the console for tracking monitoring and take the second one to the recording device cause if we monitor off of recording device (digi 001), we get the latency.

Gotcha. Man, that blows.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC