CV drum machine to a Portastudio?? how to hook up a simmons

[Danly]

This is a two-part question..

First, how do I use a pre-midi Simmons drum machine with CV inputs? What should I use as triggers.. another drum machine? Piezo pickups?
I have a sampler, but it only has stereo outs, and I would need 4 outputs to use the Simmons... but isn't it redundant anyway to use a drum machine to trigger a drum machine?

I'm a big fan of portastudio recording and I'm interested in striping a cassette, and experimenting with running a synth and drum machine along with the tape machine. So I guess my second question is what kind of equipment do I need... a daw to act as a sequencer, smpte to midi converter... midi to cv converter.

i have a pretty good base understanding of midi, I'm really just looking for help figuring out how to use my Simmons, and how to sync it with tape.

Thanks, i'm really confused and bummed that I can't figure this out for myself.

[Disasteradio]

hahaw! the important thing is you HAVE a simmons module!

I only know the sounds of these guys, never seen one in the flesh but as far as I've seen on another analog Tama kit the drum pads were all set peizo mics as far as I could see (1/4" jack outputs). One thing I would love to try would be to have some trigger samples recorded into a sampler with multiple outs, each leading to a trigger input.. then you could totally trigger that guy with MIDI.

One stupid idea you *may* be able to employ if you're sufficiently advanced with tinkering is to have a crossover on each channel of your sampler and then use dual frequency tones / dual banded noise to trigger each way.. like, you *may* be able to multiplex two channels into four using high/low frequency and left/right channel. Always been a dream of mine to get a simmons or an old tama module and trigger them with multi outs from an ASIO interface (it'd be a cinch to build a synthedit VST plug to do so).. that'd be oh-so-sweet.

But yeah, I'd try wiring a piezo pickup into the trigger input and giving it a tap... though there's gotta be someone who knows more about this than me!

[Danly]

hmm. yeah, soldering a 1/4" jack to a radio shack pickup is definately the next step. But I want to quantize as well. The only drum machines really with enough outs are akai samplers.. I was wondering if the Alesis SR-16 would work.. it has a stereo out and two auxilary outs. Probably an MPC would be best, but I don't wanna spend more for a controller than I do for the drum machine. If i'm gonna bother to play V-drums to control it, I'd rather be playing real drums.

I guess the inputs aren't considered CV.. they're just 1/4" inputs.. works kinda like a drum vocoder. I'll post any concoctions I can make with this thing once I figure out how to utilize it.

that's awesome that you think it would be easy to make a VST pluggin. I love trying out free synths from the computer world section sticky.

[Disasteradio]

I was wondering if the Alesis SR-16 would work.. it has a stereo out and two auxilary outs.

an SR-16 may be sweet but your drum samples may work wierdly as triggers.. hope I can explain this right.. but on piezo drum triggers they're expecting low voltage "clicks" or "bumps", as opposed to say, a snare drum sample, which is a signal with a way longer envelope and complex frequency components. and your line outputs from the drum machine will be WAY hotter than what it's expecting. Results may be you might get some flamming or wierd multiple triggers with some samples, say.

Some older drum machines (korg DDM110 for example) have dedicated trigger outputs for just this purpose. That korg is the only one I can think of, and that's DIN sync, no midi, so you're still kinda screwed (plus they only have one trigger output)

Probably an MPC would be best, but I don't wanna spend more for a controller than I do for the drum machine. If i'm gonna bother to play V-drums to control it, I'd rather be playing real drums.

yeah, an MPC would totally rule. You could import small digital clicks to use as triggers out multi outs and it'd run in sync with everything else, as a midi master or a slave to another sequencer.

oh and you *might* want to play real drums, but imagine just how Phil Collins you could get while entertaining guests. You got yourself a dealbreaker right there, no matter how you look at it.

I guess the inputs aren't considered CV.. they're just 1/4" inputs.. works kinda like a drum vocoder.

well, it's still CV, if they do indeed use piezo pickups - it's just like, millivolts CV.

that's awesome that you think it would be easy to make a VST pluggin. I love trying out free synths from the computer world section sticky.

it'd be totally easy.. GM drum map notes + velocity > click/trigger synthesizer > plugin output 1,2,3 or 4 depending on the input note.. then you'd bus each plugin output to a different interface output. There *could* be some impedance voodoo or something wierd there for triggering from line inputs from an interface but I have no idea about that sort of thing.

Oh hey, just had an idea. if you could map 4 bass drums to 4 drum tracks on a drum machine, run them really high pitch, and turn down the volume pretty low, you'd be kinda approaching something resembling the trigger signals.. but then again, it may trigger just fine from other samples.

Either way, once you've got that going we've gotta work on the gate reverb. man, I'm SO about the SDS-5 these last couple of months and I've only experienced it in the sampler realm. I have no explanation for it, they just sound so *right*.. but then again, I am writing synthpop!

[percussion boy]

I have an SDS V that was modified by Vince Gutman, who modded Simmons ("Simmonzes"?) for a lot of people back in the 80s. I've done a bunch of triggering of the Simmons from a drum machine, doubling the pointy little drum machine kick drum with a boomy phat Simmons kick.

Which Simmons do you have?

If it's like the V, there will be both XLR ins (for the drum pads) and 1/4" ins for each module that can be used as trigger ins like those on any other analog synth. On the V I have, you can feed an audio signal into one of those 1/4" ins, and it will trigger. Something spiky is good; I just sent the kick drum sound from my drum machine into this input.

I don't know if part of the mod on my Simmons involved making these inputs more receptive to audio-level signals; if you try this, I would start real quiet and gradually increase the level until the Simmons triggers consistently, just to be safe.
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(Slightly off-topic, I remember from the other V I've used that those 1/4" ins will also take an audio input from a synth. The Simmons' pitch varies, depending on the pitch of the synth note going into the input; you might be able to play little monophonic tunes with each module, although I don't think 1 octave of input notes equals 1 octave of notes output by the Simmons.)
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Is any of this relevant to your Simmons situation?

[inverseroom]

There's an old Yamaha drum machine--RX5 maybe?--with individual outs you could use as triggers. I had one of the Tama Techstar thingies once and used ddrum triggers on acoustic drums...

[j_howell]

yeah, soldering a 1/4" jack to a radio shack pickup is definately the next step.

ALWAYS a good idea, for many, many reasons!

[percussion boy]

There's an old Yamaha drum machine--RX5 maybe?--with individual outs you could use as triggers.

RX5 is the one I use.

There are prob'ly simpler ways to trigger 4 Simmons channels, too; I think some of the Alesis machines have a main stereo pair and an extra stereo pair. Pan and route 4 drum machine sounds with a sharp attack and quick decay, so that one sound shows up at each of the 4 outs, and that should solve the problem.

All this assumes that the inputs on the Simmons in question can be set to trigger off an audio signal. I bet they can; replacing/supplementing acoustic drums recorded to multitrack tape was one intended use of the Simmons.