Pushing the band

[@?,*???&?]

Painful.

I started an album project last week and it's going great. I'll be busy for at least month doing this. The band are playing great.

Yesterday, I got a voicemail from a member of a band I had a painful experience working with a few years back. There were 4 great musicians in the band and one not really up to the task nor born with the gift. The recording came out fine inspite of this one band member and it's been their yardstick to live up to.

Anyhow, they started this current project across town, are $3K in to it and hate everything they've done with this other dolt studio-owner charging $75 an hour. Initially when the band began this, we talked, my rate (December sale rate) was $250 for 12-hour days, but because of my past conflict with the awful band member, he did not want to work here nor was I necessarily anxious to take this on. Now he does. I like the other guys in the band.

What do I do? Musically, it's commercial alternative radio stuff.

First of all, what do I do rate-wise? The sale rate is over. The studio rate here is fixed at $35 per hour. The other studio was charging them alot and not policing their performances to 'national', 'legitimate release' level quality although they were hired to 'produce' the band. I push a band when I work with them.

Should I project rate them out at $300 per song sans rentals for this? How about hourly for overdubs on the clock and a flat fee of $300 per mix for a 12 to 18 hour mix? Or do I just mercilessly bone them like the other studio was?

Secondly, I am certainly okay stepping in to fix and mix this stuff- where possible. I've heard two tracks of this- one crappy drum performance which is likely not salvageable and another song that might work.

I have several things lined up to come in on the heels of this album production and am just trying to sort this schedule out.

As this is not a 'signed' band, I can't really fire the crappy member.

How do I turn this in to a positive?

[Gentleman Jim]

It's like he has a big, red, shiny button and he just keeps pushing it and pushing it and pushing it.

I'll pretend you're actually serious and not just pulling our chains here:

When you quoted the 'sale' rate, you told them it was a 'sale' rate, right? If you did, then the sale is over and your rates go back to normal. If you didn't, then you honor your original quote and tell them during the session that they're getting the benefit of your generosity. That's how you turn it into a positive.

But in either case, you should honor your existing commitments first. If they're that into you, they'll wait. And you don't know who those other bands who already booked may end up being.

And I'll just mention the ridiculosity of your use of the words 'national' and 'legitimate.' Who cares?

Good Art + Good Commerce = Good Karma.

[dynomike]

Well, the first thing I'd do is find out 2 things.

1) How much of the work they've done is useable album material.

2) What remains of their budget.

Once you know these two things, you'll know what you can do to help them. I'd just let them know that the December rate was a sale (hopefully they already knew this, so they don't feel screwed now), and that if they finish up the album with you, it might not be fun, but it'll turn out better. Sounds like this is true, right?

[@?,*???&?]

Good Art + Good Commerce = Good Karma.

Yes, they knew the December quote was a 'sale' rate.

What they got from me the first time was what you state. The player who couldn't deliver had a real gutcheck doing the session. What they didn't realize is the opportunity they had that first time. They've now been on the other side of the fence and got burned pretty bad.

I'll probably do the fix and mix for $300 a song, when I have time after this current project. Thanks for your advice.

[@?,*???&?]

Well, the first thing I'd do is find out 2 things.

1) How much of the work they've done is useable album material.

2) What remains of their budget.

Once you know these two things, you'll know what you can do to help them. I'd just let them know that the December rate was a sale (hopefully they already knew this, so they don't feel screwed now), and that if they finish up the album with you, it might not be fun, but it'll turn out better. Sounds like this is true, right?

I agree. I'm not sure they went in to this thing with a budget in mind. Surely someone must have calculated how long things would take versus the $75 per hour thing. Maybe. Or maybe not. Last time I worked with the singer that can't sing, he took 4 sessions of vocals and turned in 48+ tracks of shit.

[cgarges]

I am SO not a fan of the "project rate." Hourly or daily is always good because it puts some responsibility on the band to have their shit together. It's like an incentive plan. In fact, I'm in the middle of two projects right now that are HUGELY behind schedule because the bands couldn't make certain decisions and/or took a long-ass time to play their parts. If I had charged either one of them a flat fee, I'd be weeks into working for free and I sure as hell don't charge enough to make up for that.

I totally agree that you should honor all your previous commitments. Be honest and open with the band about what you have available, but try to indicate the possibility of their session taking longer than they planned based on your previous experience. Do this without directly referencing the singer or any one member of the band or incident and they'll probably get the jist. Don't over-charge them just because someone else is over-charging them, but charge them a fair rate, maybe at the top of your normal scale if you think they're gonna be a pain. Obviously, they see a value in what you did for them before and that sounds like a good thing for everyone.

Or tell them you're too busy if you really are.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Nick Sevilla]

Good Art + Good Commerce = Good Karma.

Yes, they knew the December quote was a 'sale' rate.

What they got from me the first time was what you state. The player who couldn't deliver had a real gutcheck doing the session. What they didn't realize is the opportunity they had that first time. They've now been on the other side of the fence and got burned pretty bad.

I'll probably do the fix and mix for $300 a song, when I have time after this current project. Thanks for your advice.

Hi,

Don't sell yourself for 300 a song. It will most likely take longer. Just quote them your regular price, which is a steal compared to where they were to begin with.

You can never control other studios charges, nor the bad band member either.

You'll feel better charging what you should, they save money, and everyone is happy. And don't hurry what you're doing now, make them wait, just like anyone else.

[Ultrastudio]

I have passed on sessions because I knew that one of the band members was a pain in the ass even though the band was OK and I liked some of the other members. At $35/hour, it's not worth it for you to put up with someone who can't get it together. They'll probably blame you when it goes bad, anyway. You're lucky you're already busy. That's your out. If you do it, you know what you're getting into so you should avoid the project rate.

-John

[@?,*???&?]

Okay, so I told the guys $35 an hour for additonal recording and/or editing. $300 per mix for a 12 to 18 hour mix. This takes me off the clock so I can do my best work and deliver what I delivered to them last time. They are responsible for supply costs.

Fortunately, it sounds like the guy who was the pain has all his parts down and he is happy with them. The next question, is when will I have time to do this?

[cgarges]

The next question, is when will I have time to do this?

I don't know? What are your next available dates. Doesn't sound like any kind of mystery to me. If it's next week, it's next week. If it's August, it's August.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[@?,*???&?]

The next question, is when will I have time to do this?

I don't know? What are your next available dates. Doesn't sound like any kind of mystery to me. If it's next week, it's next week. If it's August, it's August.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Obviously.

[Gentleman Jim]

Wait...what? Are you really kind of acting like a weenie because he replied to your question, only to find out that you take the time to post your inner monologue on a messageboard?!

I don't know, man. I just don't know.

[@?,*???&?]

No man, no weenie-ness at all. The order of details here are simply sharing a booking experience. The peopleskills board should be about that. Much discussion should ensue.

In particular, the aspect of a returning client for better or worse.

[Gentleman Jim]

ok.

(directs passerby to keep the flow of traffic)

Move along, People. Nothing to see here.

[rwc]

Fortunately, it sounds like the guy who was the pain has all his parts down and he is happy with them. The next question, is when will I have time to do this?

If the part that would have caused the most grief is over, it sounds like it's business as usual. Do it whenever you have free time.