Subway Guitars

[Esmo]

Has anybody ever bought or played one of these guitars?

I was down in Berkley the other day and I stopped by the shop and I really like the feel of some of the strat and tele copies. They only cost about 275-400.

For those unfamiliar, the owner 'Fatdawg', buys up parts from factories going out of business and makes his own creations. He makes them custom for each person as well. I saw cool ones like a strat with 3 p-90s.

website

http://www.fatdawg.com/

I am thinking about buying a tele copy and I am just looking for some more opinions

[Alex Netick]

I've been going there for 25 years (because I'm from berkeley), and I hate to say it, I'd never buy anything there. Most of the stuff is cheap but not cheap. I know it sounds oxymoronic. But you can get an excellent Chinese guitar for almost nothing on the web or from a decent dealer, or you can pay more for an extra bullshit factor like at Subway. I know guitar players from Berkeley who've taken their guitars there and had really negative experiences.

[Alex Netick]

Wait a minute, I go there every once in a while for cheap strings, so I should say nicer things about them.

[newfuturevintage]

I've gone in there a few times over the past couple decades or so, and it's always been the same thing: a ton of very unique (note: not good, unique) stuff, all poorly set up, and to my wallet, priced about 20-40% too high, with a healthy degree of sanctimonious BS thrown in for free.

If you do decide to get something there, beware, don't get fatdawg talking. Every time I've asked him a question, he's gotten sidetracked about whatever political soapbox he's on at the moment , and will bend your ear for as long as you let him. Over the years I've heard about the evils of Guns N Roses, credit cards and why he won't take them (I think he's rescinded this position), and how Ovation guitars were made possible by fallen soldiers in nam. Really.

Never have liked the feel of his build work either.

but that's just me.

[Alex Netick]

I've gone in there a few times over the past couple decades or so, and it's always been the same thing: a ton of very unique (note: not good, unique) stuff, all poorly set up, and to my wallet, priced about 20-40% too high, with a healthy degree of sanctimonious BS thrown in for free.

If you do decide to get something there, beware, don't get fatdawg talking. Every time I've asked him a question, he's gotten sidetracked about whatever political soapbox he's on at the moment , and will bend your ear for as long as you let him. Over the years I've heard about the evils of Guns N Roses, credit cards and why he won't take them (I think he's rescinded this position), and how Ovation guitars were made possible by fallen soldiers in nam. Really.

Never have liked the feel of his build work either.

but that's just me.

[Alex Netick]

Or about how Jimmy Page bought one of his overpiced Danelectros.

[Gentleman Jim]

I don't know the guy and I've never been to the shop, so what I say here should be taken with at least one good sized grain of salt...

I worked a short while for a band whose singer had a Hagstrom 335-type body with one humbucker that he got from this shop. While it wasn't by any means an amazing example of guitar craftsmanship, it was pretty cool that someone could get a reasonably priced guitar made with choice of hardware features. Especially because this singer is a leftie.

As far as the quality, I think the top part of the page spells out where they're coming from and what they're going for:

http://www.fatdawg.com/creations.html

Seems pretty upfront.

Sure the namedropping is a bit much, but most gear companies do it. Check out every third or fourth page in Tape Op. Maybe half of the ads have either a picture of, or a quote by, some engineer. They do it to inspire confidence, and so does this guy. Studios list every label or signed band that have ever recorded, mixed, or mastered there. Basic marketing.

As far as comparing the price of Chinese assembled guitars to stuff assembled in Berkley, certainly you can do the math there. To pretend that it's even comparable is not even fair.

[visible cow]

I've owned two of fatdawg's tele copies. Interesting guitars that I've grown to dislike. You can't resell them for much either, if that matters. There's just something that doesn't click for me in his instruments, like they are just thrown together. But what do I know, Ry Cooder thanks him on his Mambo Sinuendo album.

If you want an affordable tele type guitar I would highly recommend looking at Reverend Guitars. SF Guitarworks is a dealer and you will feel great about buying from them. They definitely stand behind the instruments they sell.

[Alex Netick]

Personally I sort of like Fat Dawg as a guy who's flamoozled his way into a pretty successful career selling snake oil and crap. That guitar store is a sort of must-see Berkeley roadside attraction, if nothing else. Aside from that, you can get a great Chinese guitar at Guitar Center for far less than anything at subway that might have a decent resale value.

[Gentleman Jim]

Well keep buying cheap Chinese guitars at Guitar Center and see how long the "sort of must-see Berkeley roadside attraction" is in business. Or any other local shops, for that matter.

I don't know why I feel compelled to defend him/the shop. I suppose I just like the idea that somewhere there's a place where people can buy unusual guitars that probably sound different without having to compete with collector idiots. For all I know they donate a percentage of profits to baby seal clubbers.

[RefD]

You can't beat that with a nail-studded, black-leather-covered stick.

*buys yet another reconditioned parlour guitar from Fat Dawg*

[Alex Netick]

Yeah, whatever. The guy's a character, but that's not why I'm dissing the place. I just know people who've taken their guitars in there and had negative experiences. Which is a bummer, because some excellent luthiers like Steve White and Ralph Novak got their start there.
I sort of wised to Subway when I was buying a Danelectro guitar 15 years ago. I went to Real Guitars, in S.F., and they were selling a real 60's danelectro, with an original case (with an amp built in with tremolo), for around 300 or less. I went across the bay, and fat Dawg was selling a Danelecrtro that wasn't even real -- it was parts he bought from a factory and put together himself (without an amp; and he didn't even use the original danelectro pickups; he used Chandler copies which sound different), for like 425. All the stuff in the shop is like that -- it's cheap crap -- and most of it isn't even original, and it's marked up higher than original.

[RefD]

and?

[Alex Netick]

And alot of the Harmony and Teisco del ray, and even the "fender" stuff he sells is the same -- they aren't even original guitars with serial numbers (oftentimes selling more than originals), so the resale value is probably going to be less than you paid for it (and it certainly isn't going to increase like an original). You can much better copies at a half-way reputable guitar company, and not have to deal with the b.s.

[honkyjonk]

I guess you guys are mostly talking about the electric stuff? Does he put together acoustics too? I've only been there once and just the fact that they seemingly have hundreds of acoustic Harmony/Silvertone/Stella/Kay's is pretty cool. Though, that said, I didn't buy any of them.

I agree though, it's a must see, even if a road-side attraction, if you're in Berkley