i want to go analog

[cozy]

hello

as the title states, i want to go analog, but am not sure how to go about it. i just broke my akai 4 track, so i am looking to upgrade to an 8 track machine. there is a tsr 8 that i am interested in right now.

i pretty much use pro tools right now for recording and mixing, but would like to record to tape and then to cd for the sound. what would i need in order to make decent recordings? emphasis on decent. this is only a home studio and i am on a real budget, so this is no doubt going to take some time surfing craigslist.

im guessing that in my signal chain, i am going to need a compressor, eq, and tape deck. i have a sampler that i can run tracks through for reverbs and delays(they sound ok).

any suggestions on some decent compressor and/or eq's? also, how do you go tape deck to cd? just a stand alone cd burner? or bounce it into pro tools and go from there?

is there any benefit from a tascam 4 track machine vs. an 8 track? i have a 4 track lined up for this weekend if i dont give in to the 8 track. i dont know if i should steer away from the 4 tracks and focus on getting an 8 track.

any insight would be great, and sorry about so many questions. everyone i know is using a daw and inst really thinking about going analog. i dont have anyone else to ask...

thanks in advance

cozy

[Patrick McAnulty]

What makes you want to go analog?

[freakmech]

I would say that if you want to go all analog the biggest investment you need to make is a really nice A/D converter to get your tape to CD as you claimed you want to do. I was really wanting an all analog recording signal. I gave up on the idea due to $$$. But i did find that no matter how analog your recording chain may be, The crucial element is getting it to CD. This requires a really nice A/D. Good luck!

[;ivlunsdystf]

These Tascam machines you're checking out: Are they 1/2 inch, or are they cassette?

EDIT: Oh, I missed the mention of tsr8 buried in there. So sorry.

[evilaudio]

Sounds like your old Akai was the all-in-one mixer/recorder thingy... The TSR8 will definitely be a step-up for you sound and performance wise, but know that you will need a mixer of some sort (at least 8 channels, preferrably 16, so you can track and monitor) to route signal to and from that machine. Sounds like you do not have a mixer. I'd look into that before getting outboard comps and EQ's. How do you get into PT right now? ...an MBox, perhaps? With a mixer, you can mix your TSR8 signals to 2-track (right/left) and send them to your MBox to burn CD's as you wish (I assume since you use PT, you have a computer, and that computer should have a CD burner, at least...?), it will sound just fine for your situation, pretty darn good, actually. Most mixers have some sort of EQ on each channel, and you really don't need a compressor (right now at least) since tape can actually compress naturally and nicely if you drive it hard enough (the TSR8 would do this very well!). I would not recommend a "really nice A/D" either as you admitted you're not going for superior sound, and you could spend your $$$ more wisely other areas. Look into a mixer. Older ones were generally built better, sound better, and work better, etc... but make sure it's not a lemon either. Old Mackies, soundtracs, Hill, soundcraft, yamahas, etc... will be good sound for not a lot of money. Of course, with this comes more cabling, more expensive tape costs, more devices to keep up with, a bigger learning curve, etc... But, isn't that what makes this audio engineering thing we do great!? I think so!

I can really appreciate your desire to work in analog land! It's more fun sometimes for sure! I'd love to get a smallish setup like this, too! But, most of my clients never want tape stuff. Oh well!

-EA

[evilaudio]

The TSR8 is 1/2" and is a really nice machine!! Not into the RCA I/O jacks, but it has VU meters for every channel and just looks PIMP!

-EA

[Muxlow]

This is something I had *BRIEFLY* considered as well. Never went through with it because of the immense learning curve you have to scale before knowing which 30 year old pieces of kit are "vintage" and which are "garbage".

Maybe some of the more experienced analog folks could give us some example set-ups using gear commonly found on CraigsList, eBay, etc.?

[leftofthedial]

A pretty nice pro-sumer analog tape machine from the mid 90's was the Fostex 1/2" 16 tracks. 1/2" tape is somewhat affordable (not really). Nobody is ever gonna say they sound like a 2" machine. But they don't sound like an ADAT either (which sadly is what I moved to after my E-16 died in 1998). I prefer my pro-tools/nuendo rig over the fostex days, but that ADAT bridge period was a very dark period for me......

[Rufer]

Pretty recently I assembled a setup similar to what you?re looking for. I?m glad I did it but I wound up paying a lot more money than I had anticipated. Do you have a tape tech nearby? Fortunately I do and I wound up immediately giving him a bunch of money to get everything as good as he could get it. Also as much as I initially thought that I?d be doing the repairs and servicing in the future?I?ve resigned myself that the best way to go will be to have a pro fix and service when the need arises. And those needs will arise and it?s not cheap. I just hope he?s around for the foreseeable future.

Tape is expensive.

So I got a Tascam 48, a 12 channel A&H Mixwizard (for monitoring and mixdown), and a cheapish 8 channel mic pre (feeds directly to tape when tracking). ?Why?? as a previous poster asked?for me, as with anything music-related for me, because it?s fun. It?s a chance to do things a bit different, play with different instruments, fiddle with knobs. I?m not a pro and have no aspirations of becoming one?so potential clientele never entered into the equation.

I set things up to be as dummy-proof as possible. I used a straight XLR bay so that each of the first 8 channels on the bay corresponded to a track on the machine. Then I?m just plugging mics into their tracks without a whole lot of additional thinking so as not to disturb the ?creative process? . That?s another reason why I switched (at least temporarily) from the computer. I used to get so bogged down in menus and options and totally forgot about the feel of that wicked guitar part I just played and want to capture?not that I had to get bogged down in that stuff?I know it?s a choice to do those things.

Also, and this is totally a personal thing?.I?m looking at a computer screen all day at work and much of the time when I?m at home. I thought maybe it?d be nice to have an aspect of my life, especially when I?m recreating that I?m not looking at a computer screen.

Would you buy the TSR-8 locally? I would highly advise you to do so. I originally bought what was before shipping a seemingly great Tascam 38?the seller had good intentions?but it arrived only mostly functional and cracked up. UPS insurance took care of it thankfully. The second machine?the one I have now. I didn?t learn my lesson and had the seller ship it. He double boxed it, Styrofoam and bubble-wrap in-between and inside, and protected all delicate parts. That seemed to arrive okay but when I got the initial servicing the tech said the tension arm and reel tables were damaged because of bad shipping?like I said, the shipping seemed really good so maybe the seller sold it that way. Who knows. Either way, I threw down a chunk of money to have that fixed.

[leftofthedial]

Also keep this in mind:

http://www.atrtape.com/index_files/pricing.html

Enjoy

[cozy]

wow, lots of responses. i love this forum.

ok,

p mackie:

why do i want to go analog? the sound is beautiful and the like Rufer said, its fun. i like to learn new things and i can hear the difference in sound between digital and tape. in the music community, most people are recording into pro tools, which is fine, i do to. but i want to take that next step forward(backwords actually since tape is old technology!) and get a different overall sound. i actually like a touch of tape hiss on my drums and i like the way it makes tracks sit together.


freakmech:
i have been pricing decent A/D converters. the only thing that i can really say is holy S*%& they are expensive!! that is going to have to be a purchase later on down the line, unless i can get a loan on my mortgage!!lol

evil audio:

my akai machine is a gx 255. it was a consumer level 4 track machine. it used 1/4" tape and it sounded good to my ears. thats what really got me hooked.

i have an old mixer, a tapco something or other. its not very good, i paid about $15 for it, but it has 3 band mixers on all of the tracks. i am always looking for vintage mixers. its a strange thing to me that i would want to do the mix before recording since ive really only worked with daws!!

and yes, the learning curve and devices is what really makes this field great! i love setting up signal chains and troubleshooting the many issues that come up(which is why my akai deck doesnt work unfortunatly haha)

left of the dial:
thanks for the referal, i will keep a look out for one of these machines. oh and again holy s%&* those parts are expensive too! i guess you gotta pay for something you love though right?

thanks for all the replies people! keep them coming. this is very educational for me, and i assume others.

[chris harris]

the link that leftofthedial referenced was not for prices for "machines". it was a price list for buying new analog tape... i.e. just the reel of tape to put on your tape machine!

you'll need the mixer to monitor through. your 8 track tape machine will have 8 inputs and 8 outputs. You'll need something to mix those tracks with so that you can hear them. You're not mixing before it hits the tape machine... you're mixing it coming off of the tape machine so that you can hear what you're recording.

[Patrick McAnulty]

wow, lots of responses. i love this forum.

ok,

p mackie:

why do i want to go analog? the sound is beautiful and the like Rufer said, its fun. i like to learn new things and i can hear the difference in sound between digital and tape. in the music community, most people are recording into pro tools, which is fine, i do to. but i want to take that next step forward(backwords actually since tape is old technology!) and get a different overall sound. i actually like a touch of tape hiss on my drums and i like the way it makes tracks sit together.

Sounds good man! didn't know if it was a workflow thing or not. Someday I'll get to work on alalog. Until then, PT LIMITED edition. lol

[cozy]

the link that leftofthedial referenced was not for prices for "machines". it was a price list for buying new analog tape... i.e. just the reel of tape to put on your tape machine!

you'll need the mixer to monitor through. your 8 track tape machine will have 8 inputs and 8 outputs. You'll need something to mix those tracks with so that you can hear them. You're not mixing before it hits the tape machine... you're mixing it coming off of the tape machine so that you can hear what you're recording.

thats just tape? i thought it was replacement parts. wow! that is something to be considered too. i need to get signed and a big fat advance!

thanks for clearing that up.

[;ivlunsdystf]

It's nice to have both computer and analog stuff, for the same Rufer reason: fun.

My own situation: I have a 238 (cassette 8 track) and junky Yamaha mixer, with a Tapco compressor, cheap Lexicon multieffects box, and a spring reverb I rigged up; I also tend a DAW/software recording setup. It's sure nice having both ways to record. The analog approach is tricky because the music is invisible (no waveforms to look at) which is surprisingly abstract to deal with if I've been working on DAW for a few months straight. It's easier to write music on a computer, usually, but recording to tape with the difficulty of quickly punching in/out to fix missed notes forces me to actually learn and play the stuff before I start recording (not a necessary step, necessarily, with DAW use/abuse)

I need better converters (we all need better converters) but for my recreational recording pursuits I get by.

Suggestion: Get your feet wet with a used cassette 4 or 8 track. The Tascam 414, 424, 488, etc. can all be had for cheap cheap cheap. If you enjoy working with invisible tracks (no waveforms on a purty screen) you can step up to the increased hassle/fidelity of something with 1/2" and an external mixer. If you miss being able to see the tracks, an oft-underemphasized disadvantage of analog systems, you'll only be out the 100 bones you spent on a cassette recorder.