Cascade Fathead iis as drum overheads

[brettcallaway]

Getting ready to try my new Fathead iis with Cromag transformers as drum overheads. Any advice. Room is not very big. Ceilings are treated as the tracking room is actually an old control room. 25' x 25' roughly. Ceilings are around 10-12'.

I'm curious if I should be using them spaced or the M-S blumlein array that is recommended. Please be as specific as possible with placement.

Unfortunately, there's not a lot of time to setup. I'm going down the night before to place mics and the drummer will be in and out in 1 day.

Thanks for all replies and advice in advance!

Cheers!

[Corey Y]

I've used my Fathead IIs as OHs plenty of times, usually in an XY position. Your room sound/treatment is going to have a pretty direct effect on the overall sound since they're figure 8. I track drums in a fairly large room with high ceilings so I've never had much of a problem using ribbon mics for OHs. I have the Blumlein bar as well, which Cascade threw in for free, but never tried it for OH on drums.

You can position them how you would any OH pair. Like I said, just depends on your room. I've heard (read) a lot of people say they think ribbon mics are bad for OH because they're dark, but I follow the line of thinking that you don't want bright mics for bright sources. I personally like my Shinbox ribbons on OH a bit better than the Fatheads, but they pick up all the high end I need and keep the cymbals from getting too harsh. To my ears at least.

So yeah, long post to say "XY". That's how I do it.

[chris harris]

I use one for a mono overhead more often than a pair for stereo OH. But, that's a personal preference. I've been digging mono OH lately. I place it directly over the spot where the beater hits the bass drum head, just high enough to not get smacked.

When I do stereo, I usually use a spaced pair, a little lower, almost in front of the kit, but not quite, maybe 1.5 ft. above the highest cymbal.

Ribbons are a little dark for overheads.... but, the upshot is that they take EQ very well. So, I give 'em a little boost with a high shelf and all is good.

Love these. I'm getting ready to move into a studio with Royers and Beyers. And, I still plan on making frequent use of my Fathead IIs.

[Recycled_Brains]

my new Fathead iis with Cromag transformer

[brettcallaway]

LOL

Opps, I meant Cinemag transformer! I'm guessing the Cro-Mags transformers are pretty harsh by the look of that picture.

[mscottweber]

I've used my Fathead IIs as OHs plenty of times, usually in an XY position. Your room sound/treatment is going to have a pretty direct effect on the overall sound since they're figure 8. I track drums in a fairly large room with high ceilings so I've never had much of a problem using ribbon mics for OHs. I have the Blumlein bar as well, which Cascade threw in for free, but never tried it for OH on drums.

You can position them how you would any OH pair. Like I said, just depends on your room. I've heard (read) a lot of people say they think ribbon mics are bad for OH because they're dark, but I follow the line of thinking that you don't want bright mics for bright sources. I personally like my Shinbox ribbons on OH a bit better than the Fatheads, but they pick up all the high end I need and keep the cymbals from getting too harsh. To my ears at least.

So yeah, long post to say "XY". That's how I do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't XY with figure-eight mics be the same thing as blumlein?

[Corey Y]

No, they both orient the mics at a 90 degree angle in relation to each other, but on different planes.

Blumlein:


XY:



I've never used a Blumlein pair for OHs. I would consider it in front of the kit, but never done it.

[dave watkins]

another thing that might be worth trying, though it may sound absolutely amazing or absolutely terrible depending on the room. is to do a mid side overhead or front of kit setup using the fathead as the "side" mic, and your choice of condenser (or dynamic) for the "mid" mic. one thing that is cool about this is you can kind of taylor the brightness of the sound because of the different mic types, and it can keep the cymbals from getting too phasey. i've gotten mixed results with it, but it is definitely a cool trick to mess with.

[brettcallaway]

Do you think there is a reason not to try the Blumlein overhead?

I did consider doing a mid-side setup and may try it. My mic quiver isn't huge. My best LDC is a Blue Cactus that I usually use as a room mic. Though I could use like a C3000 as a room mic if I like the sound of the mid-side with the cactus. Now that I think of it, I think we tried using a pair of 414s in front of the same kit for a project one time in a M-S configuration and didn't really like the sound of it in the room. I remember playing with positioning quite a bit.

[dave watkins]

i don't think there is ever any reason not to try something!
do it and see if you like it, hell if i had two fatheads, i'd try myself right now.

i don't have a huge or very amazing collection of mics either, my stuff is all pretty modest, but i do have interesting rooms to record in and have managed to more or less figure out where my mics shine, and in what combination, and on what instruments.

if you have the time to just throw some mics up in different combinations and configurations and just spend a couple hours experimenting, it will be ever so much more valuable to be able to hear your own results as opposed to hearing anyone on here telling you what your results might end up being.

[mscottweber]

No, they both orient the mics at a 90 degree angle in relation to each other, but on different planes.

Blumlein:


XY:



I've never used a Blumlein pair for OHs. I would consider it in front of the kit, but never done it.

Ok, but then how would you go about putting the fatheads in XY?
I understand that the planes are different, but if you get rid of the body of the mic and you just have the capsules, those two pictures look identical.

Sorry for the off-topic tangent. Maybe I should make a separate post for this...

[Corey Y]

The result might be nearly identical, I can't say. The actual orientation for the particular mics that I use is not. I'm not trying to align the capsules when I put them in an XY, they're on two separate stands, oriented "up" angled at a 90 degree pitch from each other. Like I said, the result in the stereo field might be so similar that there's practically no difference to the ear. I don't use my Blumlein bar in that application because it would be physically awkward to angle down at the drums from above the drummer's head. Which is where I like to place them most of the time.

To bring it back to the question posed by the OP. You can use a pair of Fathead IIs as OH like you would any other pair of mics, just consider the room and what's coming in the backside of the mic. It may not be the sound you want and in a less than ideal acoustic environment it could be plainly bad sounding. I think any time you use a ribbon mic or an omni the room and/or acoustic treatment is going to play a big role in the sound.

[suppositron]

Aren't figure-8's in XY actually in blumlein configuration?

[rty5150]

Aren't figure-8's in XY actually in blumlein configuration?

but blumein is xy with figure 8 mics in 90 degrees.


rich

[Mane1234]

I've used those Fatheads as OHs. Tried single mono, X-Y, and Blumlein. In the space that I was recording in it was a pretty roomy sound as the room was untreated, but it did sound pretty good. My favorite was a mono OH with the Fatheads out front in Blumlein. This particular room and drum kit was rather bright and as well I tend to mix things a bit dark so I really liked the ribbons...Looking back at some notes just now I used a single SM81 as the OH.

I would love to have me some mics with the CroMags stuffed in em....