Drum Mic Kits

[Openreel24]

What do you like, and/or dislike about the current drum mic kits currently available? What would your ideal drum mic kit consist of?

[Jeff White]

I have never used a drum mic kit to record with because i've always felt that piecing a mic locker together was a better option. You now, industry standard mics, or taking the approach that any mics used on the drum kit will serve double duty on something else (overheads --> acoustic instruments, Kickor front of kit ---> vocals, Snare ---> guitar cabinet). It always seemed that drum mic kits were not put together with this in mind, and what was presented was a bunch of smaller dynamics for snare/toms, a large dynamic for kick, and maybe a pair of sdc mics for overheads.

I have heard drum mic kits on live bands that sound great and from time to time thought "Hey, ya know, maybe it would be a nice short cut to have a kit for drums for $XXX.XX"... But then I never was sold on the overhead mics, and have a nice mic locker now, so...

Ribbon mics. Is there a drum mic kit on the market with ribbons? Maybe a deluxe kit with a pair of ribbons, a pair of small condensers, a pair or single large multi-pattern condenser, and then a bunch of decent dynamics. Maybe a site from a manufacture to design your own kit for your needs (a few mics or go nuts), that you can special order or order directly, with a nice case that will fit everything in it (separate case from ribbons to stand vertical), shocks, etc. And a How To Guide, on the web, in PDF, for download. Different techniques using mics, a mid/side explanation, etc. Concise. In one place.

That would be a few weeks work to get all of that information together but would be a nice treat for the noobie just starting out. Knowledge is power after all.

And again, you now, if they want to sub out the LDC down the road for a more expensive mic, well, they can still use the rest of the kit, provided that it sounds good for recording. I understand that we're talking about a kit with possibly a dozen mics (the deluxe edition) + hardware. But if it is affordable up front (discount for more mics purchased), sounds good, and able to be customized to meet the needs of the engineer/hobbiest, well, I'm sure that it will sell. And direct sales takes the middle-man out and keep things simple, with out the need to ship units that may come back to places that don't want to take a gamble on a 9 to 12 mic kit. Making a case that will accept a variety of foam inserts to hold between 6-12 mics is the hard part. But if you just sell one case (free if purchased full or nearly full), it also encourages filling the case, as some people (like me) are OCD about stuff like that.

Jeff

[Stevil]

most mic kits are focused on the low budget consumer & don't grow with the recordist as they acquire higher quality mics. the shure set would be a good exception because it's an adequate kick/bass mic & a bunch of 57's & you can always throw a 57 on anything. what that kit is missing is overheads. maybe because shure isn't known for making overhead condensers & figures you'll get them elsewhere. i don't think i'm a big fan of any single brands entire mic line & i doubt anyone would be able to come up with a compilation kit with 'best in class', 'bang for the buck' or "MOD upgrade" versions or mic's from multiple manufacturers who are known to do certain mic's well.

[Ryan Silva]

I agree that "Drum Mic Kits" will not be found in many studios, which has more to do with fact that they are marketed for sound reinforcement, and not for recoding. That being said just because they are not primarily for recording studio environments does not mean that they are 'cheep' or 'inappropriate".

I just picked up 3 Beyer Dynamics Opus88's for recording toms. I only use them on kits that do not allow me enough room to place the microphones I would prefer to use. Even though they are not my first choice for tom mics, they sound great, and the flexibility they offer me on tightly scheduled sessions make them great tools.

[Snarl 12/8]

I don't understand why a company like MXL or Octava doesn't take a look at the "mods" out there and incorporate them into a "top tier" line of mics. They could probably offer them for less than buying the mics on ebay and then sending them off to be modded.

Or, if MXL released a drum mic kit of all the popularly modded mics and then somebody could offer a package deal on modding all of them.

What happened to the 2001, btw.

[jgimbel]

Or, if MXL released a drum mic kit of all the popularly modded mics and then somebody could offer a package deal on modding all of them.

That seems like it'd be such a huge hit with lower end home recording folks.

I started out at home with a Shure "drum mic kit". It came with a kick mic, 3 mics to be used either for toms or snare, and two cymbal mics (not overheads, CYMBAL mics...). It was $179, which just blew my mind at the time that I could spend that much money on mics! Now I've still only got kind of mid-level gear and I've still spend thousands, oh how the perception changes.

The "tom/snare" mics (DM70?), which were small dynamics, actually sounded decent on toms, but HORRIBLE on snare. The kick mic (DM80?) was pretty awful too - it picked up some low-mid frequencies, and it seemed that was about it. The cymbal mics were CM88s I believe, and they had the harshest highs and not much else. The connector on one got messed up after about a month, and I never wanted to use the other one again (I think I still have it somewhere). I ended up deciding my two Nady Starpower mics sounded MUCH better as overheads since they actually picked up some of the whole kit. I used them for probably almost a year while I wasn't recording too often. When I got my first SM57 I stuck it on snare and I was amazed. I know not everyone likes it but compared to those "universal mics" it blew them away.

I probably would have gotten better sounds sooner if I had gotten one of those multiple SM57 kits, or just two LDCs or something. The "drum mic kit" were mics intending to be universal between drums, but it's hard for a mic to be "universal" but supposedly tailored for just one source.

It took me a while of messing around with those mics to realize they just weren't great overall, and my micing technique wasn't what was wrong. The thing that I do like about having that kit, is that while I was completely ignorant about drum micing when I started, I eventually got good technique from finding the only spots I could get a good sound from with those crappy mics. I know a lot more about phase issues, polar patterns, and mics in general because I spent a while trying to get good sounds from pretty bad mics. Maybe cheap drum kits should be passed on to beginners until they outgrow them, then passed on to someone else. Once you reach "why after a year of using these mics do my drums still not sound like the records I like", you can buy some better mics.

Personally I wouldn't trade what the crappy mics taught me, even if I could have started out with something really nice. That's just my experience though, I don't know if everyone would see it that way. Sorry for the ramble!

[Openreel24]

I agree, most studios will pick and choose mics from their mic locker as I do myself when recording. We have been asked for quite some time when we would be producing Drum Mic Kits, and as a result, we are looking at the issue. What we did not want to do was put together a kit just for the sake of it. I will say, we have some new products in the final stage of testing, that I believe drummers will find very interesting. Schhhhhhhhh! That's a secret. Lol.

With regards to ribbon mics, they are very much part of our current testing and evaluation, so stay tuned.

To address Snarls comment regarding Mods. We listen to all feedback from our customers, as well as what's going on in the forums, so are fully aware of the "mod" scene. I have even had conversations with some of the better known "modders". The realistic answer, and this is my personal view, is that MXL make microphones that are outstanding value for money. I have used pretty much every mic we make in the studio, and have always obtained the results I wanted. If we take the V67G as an example. It sells for a street price of $119. It sells in huge numbers, and the customers who want an entry level condenser microphone are more than happy with it's performance. To "mod" it here would both raise the price dramatically, as well as change the microphone into a different product. The mics that are so popular with the "mod" scene, are already successful in their own right. Besides that, something that is different is not necessarily better. I hope you will have noticed, that over the past couple of years, we have been continuously pushing to raise the bar in affordable quality microphones, and plan to continue doing so.

Feel free to email me if you have any comments or questions.

roy@marshallelectronics.net

[chris harris]

Drum mic kits are intended for small venues who don't have anything but 57s and 58s.

That said, my ideal (inexpensive) drum mic kit would consist of:

Bass Drum in = 1 - AKG D112 + Earthworks Kickpad
Bass Drum out = 1 - Yamaha Subkick
Snare Top = 1 - Shure sm57
Snare Bottom = 1 - Audix i5
Toms = 3 - Oktava MC012
OH = 2 - Beyer M160
Room = 2 - AKG 414

[jgimbel]

subatomic pieces' ideal inexpensive drum mics kit is pretty the same answer I'd have. I might want an SM7 in there somewhere if I was micing a variety of kits.

As much trash as MXL sometimes gets, I do kind of like that the mics are all pretty cheap and many can be modded to sound incredible (thanks to people like Joly). I don't mind the routine of getting a mic that's not horrible for a good price, and then when I get the money I can have it modded to something that really shines. I've got a pretty steady low budget, and if I hadn't had MXL mics to start out with I'm not sure I'd have gotten into recording as much. People who are more experienced usually say it's better to just save up the money and get something really nice, but I kind of like looking back on all the equipment I started out and the steps I've taken to get better stuff. This isn't just with mics, it's with guitars, basses, and drums too. Maybe that's just the way I've done it and other people feel it's wasteful, but I'm a complete believer in milking the hell out of what you've got and can afford until you can step up. I guess that totally depends on the path you've taken though. I'd probably feel totally different if I went to school for recording.

If MXL did the "mods" themselves they'd cost quite a bit more, so maybe they could have a lower-end tier of products like they have now, and then a more mid level. That seems like it's what I'm seeing anyway though, as I've heard really great things about their mics that are around the $500 range (tube mics I think?). I just worry that if the focus is on these "higher priced" mics (higher priced to those of us that can't afford the 414s or neumans) then the lower priced ones will suffer. I'd rather have to roll off some harsh high end than have to deal with bigger mic issues than I could help.

While all the MXL mics around aren't the same quality as what the incredibly talented and experienced folks on here use, it's amazing to people just starting out and people on low budgets that you can get usable condenser mics for $200 or less.

That said, I still love my MXL 992. I don't know what happened, I must have gotten one someone worked hard on or something, because mine has no harsh high end. It doesn't sound that different from the Oktava MK319 I just got.

[premiumdan]

DrumOp:

The only fuss I have about the Samson clip-on mics for snare/toms,
is that I either clip them to the rims or have to use those spring-loaded
mic clips to mount 'em on a boom/stand. I would prefer companies to
offer mounting options, is all. I think Avantone (maybe others) sells
mics/clips that have rim-mount and boom/stand options? Anyone?

I guess it all depends on how much the drummer "walks" around, playing
different areas or staying basically center; and, whether the mics will get in
the way...

Sound-wise, the dynamics seem half-decent, although I swapped out the
two C01 condensers and the single C02H condenser from my 8Kit for a pair
of Audio-Technica 37Pro's. I'm still testing my collection for a dedicated
hi-hat mic...

-Dan

[Openreel24]

Thanks to all of you that have already responded.

In answer to a couple of points raised so far. Our current R&D on newer and "higher end" mics will certainly not effect our attitude to our entry level and mid line microphones. From the beginning of our entry into the microphone manufacturing marketplace, it has been our philosophy to make great sounding microphones but keeping them at prices that average musician can afford.

All of your feedback and suggestions are being looked at with great interest by the entire team here, and we thank you for taking the time to contribute to the discussion.

Regards

Roy@marshallelectronics.net

[cgarges]

I don't understand why a company like MXL or Octava doesn't take a look at the "mods" out there and incorporate them into a "top tier" line of mics.

They could, and then someone would come along with a "mod" for those and then the whole thing would start all over again.

"Mods" are about personal preference, not an absolute right or wrong and in terms of using what are generally accepted as "better" components in a microphone, isn't that what "better mics" are usually about?

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Snarl 12/8]

I don't understand why a company like MXL or Octava doesn't take a look at the "mods" out there and incorporate them into a "top tier" line of mics.

They could, and then someone would come along with a "mod" for those and then the whole thing would start all over again.

"Mods" are about personal preference, not an absolute right or wrong and in terms of using what are generally accepted as "better" components in a microphone, isn't that what "better mics" are usually about?

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

It would be pretty cool to have an even lower priced "kit" of the commonly modded mics. People could buy the kit for all the reasons stated, and then when the inevitable "outgrowing" happened, they could send them off to be modded instead of selling them on eBay. Or they could sell them on eBay if they wanted "better" instead of just "different". This is making me want to buy some 012's and some 603's and a 319 and an apex ribbon.

[cgarges]

So, you're just asking for a lower-priced version of the modded mics, right?

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Snarl 12/8]

So, you're just asking for a lower-priced version of the modded mics, right?

I'm not really asking for anything. I'm not really on the market for any mics whatsoever at the moment. I thought the question was what would make a cool "drum mic kit". I think it would be kinda cool to keep upping the performance/price ratio that MXL, to a large degree, changed forever. I'm sortof speculating that I could see down the road a kit you could buy as a group and then mod as a group to extend the useful life of the mics as someone developed as an engineer. It would be also be cool to get the modded effect for less dough and hassle - isn't that obvious?

I've been surprised for a while that octava and MXL don't incorporate the mods into their designs somehow since everyone raves about how much better and more usable the mics sound afterward and the factory could do it cheaper I'm almost positive. Openreel's arguments don't make sense to me. He was talking about why they make the mics they currently make and I totally applaud them for what they are doing, it doesn't address why they don't do what I'm saying in the future. Your argument makes a bit more sense to me. "Which mods would they choose?" It could get sloppy in a hurry.

I honestly don't think that I, personally, would ever buy a kit or get it modded as a kit, since I'm sortof covered for drum mics at the moment. I've got an AKG D112 and a DIY subkick, AKG D321 for snare top and bottom and AT 37r pros for OH's. The sounds I'm getting are making me happy at the moment.