Why is getting a decent vocal so difficult?

[cookiecookiesunda]

Hello! After about a year of fiddling around with different set-ups and buying and selling random pieces of gear I'm finally happy with the sounds I'm getting. I've recorded some very good quality guitar, piano and drum machine tracks but now I can't match the quality with the vocals

I'm using an mxl 990 mic and an audio buddy preamp (not the best stuff) in to a boss br multitrack.

The problem is I'm getting some very nasty digital distortion but when i back away from the mic or sing quieter It lacks the "oomph" and will not sit well with the other tracks. Even when I do get an acceptable take it doesn't sit well with the other tracks.

Any recommendations? Should I get a really nice compressor?

[Ryan Silva]

Compression should help; doesn?t that Boss unit have some built in compression? If it does give that a try, and if it's working, look into a better unit. Not to mention just trying a De-esser

As far as the nasally sound you are getting, try a dynamic mic SM57/SM58/RE-20/Md421 or turn the singers head so the voice is hitting the Microphone off axis. I am a bit of a sibilant singer myself, and before I got a varied mic selection I sang off axis with much success into my GT66.

[kinger]

That's good advice; I'd also start with trying some different mics. In super-budget land, I've had luck with an MXL V67G, an Apex 205 and a Peavey 520i. I'm a fairly sibilant, nasally singer and these three all help me with that. I find myself picking different mics for different songs, as well, depending on how loud/quiet/scratchy/smooth I'm singing. I like to use just a little compression on the way in, also (usually with an ART Levelar, another cheapo favourite).

[A.David.MacKinnon]

If you're at all sibilant the a condensor mic is not your friend. That goes double for cheap made in China condensors. Compression will often make things worse.

Try a ribbon or a decent dynamic. I've had really good results with m88s, 421s, 441, re15s, re20s, and SM7s.

Do a search, there's been a ton of threads about this.

[jgimbel]

I hear great things about the Levelar. I think you can make do (due?) fine with the audio buddy, and the boss BR's are great, I started on the 532, then went to the 864, they're both nice machines. I think you should get a nicer mic, though that doesn't have to mean spending tons of cash. To me it sounds like "nasty digital distortion" might mean "really harsh high end". If this is true, then my guess is because the mic you're using, the 990, is actually a small diaphragm condenser, ie. one you might want to use on drum overheads, acoustic guitar, etc. The 990 is in the body of a large diaphragm condenser, but is small. I took the inner mesh out and now I use it as a half decent small diaphragm, and with those expectations it's not bad. But for vocals, I'd say a dynamic, like Ryan said, or a large diaphragm condensers (that's what I'd suggest).

But like I said, you don't have to get a super expensive one to make a big difference. When I was starting to record on a computer rather than the 864, I bought a 990 for vocals. I had the same problem as you, too harsh. Then I got an MXL 992 ($100 - http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=273162) and the difference was really dramatic, despite the bashing that MXL often receives. There are a lot of large diaphragms in that price range so you could look around, but the 992 is a really nice underrated mic. A lot of people use the V67 ($110 - http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=273152 and V69 ($300, but it's a tube mic). I haven't ever used them, but people talk often about how much better than other MXL's they are. But anyway, the 992 has decent high end without being overly harsh, so it fixed all the problems you're talking about when I had them. I still use that mic for vocals pretty often.

Or if you can find one, an Oktava MK-319 is the opposite of sibilant. From what I hear they're normally $2-300 on ebay and around, but I got mine on ebay for $82 (!!!). I haven't done much with it yet, but I just did some quick tests and if anything it's dark. Could be just what you need. There's the MK-219 that's the older version of the same mic, and just as good from what I hear.

[strdsk]

What I have come to use after years of fiddling is either a Shure SM7 or ideally a small diaphragm condenser mic with a touch of compression and a smidgeon of reverb. What they say ended up being true...big diaphragms for sound sources generating lots of low end and small for sources making mids and top end. A Naiant condenser run through a TC Electronic M One XL is a cost effective path that in my opinion smokes set-ups I've had costing thousands. JD!

[Z-Plane]

So the MXL and audio buddy ain't working out for you, but do you have a positive example i.e. have you ever recorded a great vocal on other kit ? If not, there could be a whole list of things to check out before swapping gear.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

The problem is I'm getting some very nasty digital distortion but when i back away from the mic or sing quieter It lacks the "oomph" and will not sit well with the other tracks.

is this maybe just simple gain staging? i.e. you're just overloading the pre/converters? i would try just lowering the pre and commence singing loudly right up on the mic and see how that goes.

Any recommendations? Should I get a really nice compressor?

i would buy an sm7 before a compressor. you really can't go wrong with that mic. besides being terrific for vocals, it's great on lots of other things too and you'll use it over and over forever.

[strdsk]

A comp isn't gonna fix that distortion if it's to tape that way. Sounds like you're clipping the pre. Lower the gain on the pre, use a pop filter on the mic, and make sure your digital chain is all in sync. That could be the sound of jitter as well. If you still have noise after the pre is as low as it will go, you may even need to engage some sort of pad attenuator. Best...JD!

[cookiecookiesunda]

This is some great advice everyone, thanks. I think I'll be getting another mic soon. I've always known that this mxl set I have is pretty cheap but I've never wanted to go out and cluelessly buy another mic that's just as bad.

That said I'm considering getting an sm7 or one of those mxl's, maybe both If I can find them cheap enough.

I don't think I'm clipping the preamp, it's only turned up maybe 18%. akljdlajdfjalj

I still feel like I need a compressor though so I can just get as loud as I want without worrying about it.

ASDBUDGETASJ

[chris harris]

I still feel like I need a compressor though so I can just get as loud as I want without worrying about it.

Compressors aren't magic. It would be so much better for you in the long run to learn about correct gain staging. If you're having trouble with that (and, judging by the fact that you can't imagine how you could be clipping with the gain at "18%", you are) then you're gonna have a hell of a time figuring out compressors.

[strdsk]

I'd hold off the MXLs if I was you. Another cheap condenser that rocks is a Nady TCM1050 tube mic...very useful. Beware of compression...it can squeeze the life out of your vox and can dull your sound. Remember...the $35.00 Naiant mics also rock www.naiant.com

[chris harris]

btw, it never ceases to amaze me how every time someone has a problem of ANY KIND, there's no shortage of people with recommendations for things you can BUY to "solve" the problem. It makes sense, though, because often, as is the case with you, people with problems are LOOKING FOR A WAY to purchase their way out of trouble.

Give me a good singer, and I could get nice, full sounding, non-distorted vocal sounds with the exact same equipment that you have.

Your problem is more likely a lack of knowledge, rather than a lack of gear.

[Ryan Silva]

btw, it never ceases to amaze me how every time someone has a problem of ANY KIND, there's no shortage of people with recommendations for things you can BUY to "solve" the problem. It makes sense, though, because often, as is the case with you, people with problems are LOOKING FOR A WAY to purchase their way out of trouble.

Give me a good singer, and I could get nice, full sounding, non-distorted vocal sounds with the exact same equipment that you have.

Your problem is more likely a lack of knowledge, rather than a lack of gear.

I think that?s right, it's just most of the time we improve are skills at the same time we improve our gear selection. So it's easy to get mis-guided and think that you can purchase quality.

But yes

Gain Staging
Dynamic Mics

Then worry about a compressor.

[strdsk]

It's as easy to start a shit storm on these types of boards as it is to generalize types of people and their opinions or viewpoints. I personally have no affiliations with the gear manufacturers I just got done recommending and hence forth have no incentives to plug their goods. I was simply stating what gear I like and what I do not...who decides to take heed or not doesn't really matter to me to be honest. Regardless of how good an engineer you are or are not...having solid gear helps. I, for the record, have an engineering degree and scratch build some of my own gear. For me to recommend doing so to this poster would be a moot point though. As far as "solving problems" go...there is no "problem" I see here...just a user error that he is at least bright enough to catch. That's more than I can say for most people these days. I'm also not "looking for a way to purchase out of my woes" to be clear. I'm just saying that all of us don't have the luxury of working with "a good singer" all the time. The gear our thread poster already has probably is sufficient. But for anyone to say that they can get a "nice, full sounding, non-distorted sound with it" and raising the "lacking knowledge" flag prior to knowing if the gear in question is even functioning properly is dipping in the Kool-Aid without knowing the flavor in my opinion.