Liquid Mix 16!

[sad iron]

Not sure if this should go in Gear Talk or Computer World, since it's computer emulation of gear that comes with hardware, but I'll put it here.

I'm thinking about buying this thing, but before I do, I hoping I can get some feedback from users.

Right now I'm pretty much entirely in the box. I have a Pro VLA and a couple other pieces, but they don't see much use these days because I just don't go through the steps to bounce tracks down that use external hardware. Guess I'm lazy.

My real question is, does this Liquid Mix thing really do what it says it does? The 16 is now only $200 and I could sell my VLA and get it, but I find it hard to believe that something that inexpensive would really be as good as I want it to be.

I know a lot of folks use the UAD stuff, but that's not an option for me since i'm on an iMac. I've read that the LM stuff is comparable.

I'm running Logic 9 and my iMac has 3Gbs of RAM

Any feedback on usage or comparisons would be welcome. Thanks.

[woodhenge]

I've had the Liquid Mix (32-channel version) for a couple of years now and really like it alot. I had considered the Duende and UAD options, but picked the LM due to the sheer variety of models, convenience of being able to easily move it to my laptop, and the fact that it's a control surface.

A few years back, I sold off my analog deck, console, and a large portion of my outboard and was looking for something small that could bring that analog-style mojo back to my ITB setup. I think the LM fits the bill for this perfectly, and has models of a lot of the old gear I got rid of. Does it sound EXACTLY like the units modeled? No, not totally... but it still sounds great on its own terms. The LM coupled with the Liquid pre's on my Saffire 56 interface is an amazing tonal combination.

I don't use it on everything, but I use the SSL buss compressor, UA1176, 1073, and Distressor models quite often with the results I would expect. It has become the go-to piece for me when the native plug-ins just can't cut it. Definitely worth the $200 for the LM16, IMO.

[sad iron]

well, I ordered it. Should be here in a couple days. A total impulse, as I started looking at it this morning and ordered this afternoon.

I'm a little concerned about FW usage. I'm running my 828MKII and one FW HD off the FW 400 and then a couple FW HDs on the 800 side. Hoping the Liquid Mix doesn't demand its own bus or I'm screwed, as I live in iMac world for the foreseeable future.

[Osumosan]

Hope you like it. I have one that works fine alongside a Presonus Lightpipe. I usually have 16 ch I/O at 44.1k going alongside the LM with no problem. No other hard drives on the FW buss. Just so you know, there's only one FW bus that the 400 and 800 ports all share.

[Snarl 12/8]

Do those things work at all on a PC with Reaper? I have no idea how the UAD, external signal processors really work and what the limiting factors are as far as compatibility.

[woodhenge]

I'm a little concerned about FW usage. I'm running my 828MKII and one FW HD off the FW 400 and then a couple FW HDs on the 800 side. Hoping the Liquid Mix doesn't demand its own bus or I'm screwed, as I live in iMac world for the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't worry about it too much... It's typically only used for mixing due to the latency factor, so you wouldn't be sending a huge amount of audio channels from your interface at the same time anyway. I suppose if you had a HUGE amount of tracks streaming from the FW disk and were using all 16 channels on the LM you *might* run into a problem, but this is probably beyond the "typical" project.

Do those things work at all on a PC with Reaper? I have no idea how the UAD, external signal processors really work and what the limiting factors are as far as compatibility.

If Reaper uses VST plug-in's and you've got a FW400 interface on your PC, you can use a Liquid Mix. It shows up like any other VST plug-in (or AU on the Mac), but just happens to use an external unit for its DSP as opposed to being native. PCI-based units have less latency than firewire units do, but the idea is really the same.

[sad iron]

Got the LM 16 yesterday and have played around with it a little bit. I'm really impressed. I can't imagine anyone not wanting to pay $200 for this. I can't believe it's $200. The emulations sounds pretty amazing to my ears. I've had some experience with a couple of the pieces in the real world and this box does the same thing they do. I can't wait to really get into it. Between Logic 9 last week and now this my studio's taken a quantum leap forward.

[chris harris]

Got the LM 16 yesterday and have played around with it a little bit. I'm really impressed. I can't imagine anyone not wanting to pay $200 for this. I can't believe it's $200. The emulations sounds pretty amazing to my ears. I've had some experience with a couple of the pieces in the real world and this box does the same thing they do. I can't wait to really get into it.

+1

got mine yesterday, too. it's really an incredible value for $200. Great convolution emulations!

I feel like the control surface is kinda useless without the screen that the bigger LM 32 has. You still have to look at your computer screen. I just tucked the LM16 behind my rack and use the plugs just like any other plug in.

[sad iron]

True. Without the screen it does make things more challenging, but I'm going to see if I can get muscle memory for where there knobs are and try to split the difference. I really like being able to turn a knob or two again.

Trying to figure out the best way to get some presets going. I'll probably set up some logic channel strips with sets I like. Going into the LM snapshot folder takes a long time and it kind of a pain in the ass.

[Snarl 12/8]

What's the latency like with this mofo? I mean, if you send one track out to this thing and back, will it be phasey sounding with another track of the same instrument recorded at the same time?

[woodhenge]

Glad to see you guys are diggin' the LM! Such an under-rated piece of gear. People are too quick to judge because it's "modeled". I think it totally rocks, personally... ESPECIALLY since the price drop! (I wish I coulda got one as cheap as they're selling them for now, that's for sure...)

Trying to figure out the best way to get some presets going. I'll probably set up some logic channel strips with sets I like. Going into the LM snapshot folder takes a long time and it kind of a pain in the ass.

Yeah, I pretty much gave up on using the snapshots as well... No matter what, I always had to tweak 'em anyway. Better off making personal ones from scratch for the way you work, really. Especially if you set up a "Super-EQ".

What's the latency like with this mofo? I mean, if you send one track out to this thing and back, will it be phasey sounding with another track of the same instrument recorded at the same time?

If your DAW has latency compensation, you shouldn't have a problem. If it doesn't, the documentation explains how many samples to compensate for. It's pretty easy, really.

[yoyopoc]

"I've read that the LM stuff is comparable to UAD"

No No No....no comparison, had the LM for a year before finally admitting to myself that it was more of a toy than a serious contender, sold it on via ebay. UAD card and plugs could not be prized away from me under any circumstances.

see: http://www.mercenary.com/whynofocusrite.html

Got to agree with Fletcher and Drew on this one Focusrite is not the company that built the brand, it was bought out after going bankrupt post Rupert Neve but still trades on the brand name.
semi-pro sadly.

[woodhenge]

"I've read that the LM stuff is comparable to UAD"

No No No....no comparison, had the LM for a year before finally admitting to myself that it was more of a toy than a serious contender, sold it on via ebay. UAD card and plugs could not be prized away from me under any circumstances.

I agree that the UAD stuff is awesome, but it's completely worthless on a firewire-only machine. As Sad Iron stated, he's on an iMac...

[sad iron]

"I've read that the LM stuff is comparable to UAD"

No No No....no comparison, had the LM for a year before finally admitting to myself that it was more of a toy than a serious contender, sold it on via ebay. UAD card and plugs could not be prized away from me under any circumstances.

I agree that the UAD stuff is awesome, but it's completely worthless on a firewire-only machine. As Sad Iron stated, he's on an iMac...

Yeah, and i read through that stuff n Mercenary and they were talking hardware and history which bears little relevance to the particular product up for discussion here. I know of plenty of folks who have had good things to say about the Liquid line. I remember Joel Hamilton raving about the LIquid channel.

The point is, Focusrite does seem to have taken a turn toward the more pro-sumer end of the gear spectrum (and admits as much in the rebuttal from their head fella on that Mercenary site). I have not had the chance to use the UAD stuff and until i move to another machine, I won't. My short experience with the LM has been nothing but positive. I can already hear improvements in my mixes that are worth a helluva lot more the the $199 I spent and that in itself is worth the price of admission.

Honestly, I am semi-pro and never claimed to be anything but (and I think you could see why using that as a derogatory term might chafe a bit to some here). Years ago that might have meant that I had a couple 3630s, a Mackie board and some ADAT machines. And if that was the case, I still could have made darn good records with that gear (and I know folks that do). If I can have an approximation of some of the best gear ever made at my fingertips (regardless of one user's opinion of its quality), then bring it on.

It's not what you've got, it's how you use it, eh?

[woodhenge]

It's not what you've got, it's how you use it, eh?

EXACTLY!!!!


Personally, I have had EXCELLENT results with the Focusrite products I own or have owned in the past. In fact, that Liquid 4PRE might just be my next purchase... There's a lot to be said for versatility and options as opposed to a one-trick pony. (Even if it's a really good pony...) ESPECIALLY when it makes sense financially!

And to bash a software-based product on the lineage of its hardware is quite comical, actually. That's totally like saying a PowerPC Mac sounds better/worse than an Intel Mac because the architecture is different. It could have a chip made of swiss cheese for all I care, as long as it does what I need it to do and sounds good...