Does This Studio Owe Me An Apology?

[cgarges]

(Moderator's note:)I decided to make this its own topic, since it's getting a bit farther away from the thread in which it originally appeared.

Hey, I've got one for you guys.

I once did a project for a band where several studios were involved. I had been working with this band for about 12 days (over maybe a month or two) when we got to this one particular studio. Keep in mind that one guy in the band had been a close friend for a long time and that when we were trying to figure out the schedule, locale, etc, for the various stages of the project, I was the one who recommended where we should work. This involved a bit of "studio auditioning" at various locations and we chose a place where we thought we'd be comfortable and where we could get a lot done in a short amount of time.

The band was happy with the choice of studio and were apparently happy with me as an engineer, since we were like two weeks into the project. At one point during the sessions at the aforementioned studio, one of the guys (my close friend, actually) was hanging out in the lounge while I was in the control room working and the studio manager asks the band if everything is okay and if they're satisfied. The guy from the band says, "Oh yes, very much so." Then studio manager then says, "Is everything cool with Chris? Because if it's not or if you guys aren't happy, we have some guys here who can help you out."

Now, this guy in the band thought it was funny and pretty much immediately told me about it. I was shocked at that. In some ways, I understand where the studio manager was coming from --looking out for the interest of the band, trying to make sure they could provide any possible service to help the project, etc.-- but I do think that a line was crossed. The band was surprised by it and again, they thought it was funny. I wasn't sure how to feel about it at the time and I haven't brought it up here before, but it happened a long time ago and since all this time has passed and I'm still kind of shocked and appalled at what I think was fairly unprofessional behavior, I thought I'd get you guys' take on it. I never said anything to the studio manager, the owner, or anyone else who worked there and I've never talked about it publicly before.

At this point, it's pretty much irrelevant, but I'm curious.

Thoughts?

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[chris harris]

That was definitely out of line.

[@?,*???&?]

" Then studio manager then says, "Is everything cool with Chris? Because if it's not or if you guys aren't happy, we have some guys here who can help you out."

Who was producing and was there a signed contract? If you were not the producer then you had nothing permanent in the arrangement. A band will make a decision on a studio for different reasons than an engineer would.

[cgarges]

Who was producing and was there a signed contract? If you were not the producer then you had nothing permanent in the arrangement. A band will make a decision on a studio for different reasons than an engineer would.

It was a co-production between the band and myself. No signed paperwork. These guys were friends who called and asked me how much I would charge to make a record with them. I told them, they paid me, they asked for production help, I gave it to them. It was a really loose agreement because everyone was in it to have fun and get a decent record done.

The decision to book that particular studio was one that I made, but the band approved the decision. I wouldn't have pushed for that place if they hadn't wanted to do it there, but the band wouldn't have thought of doing the session there if I hadn't suggested it.

I don't see what that's got to do with whether or not the studio manager's comments were professional. Now that you have the details, please elaborate on your position.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[@?,*???&?]

Who was producing and was there a signed contract? If you were not the producer then you had nothing permanent in the arrangement. A band will make a decision on a studio for different reasons than an engineer would.

It was a co-production between the band and myself. No signed paperwork. These guys were friends who called and asked me how much I would charge to make a record with them. I told them, they paid me, they asked for production help, I gave it to them. It was a really loose agreement because everyone was in it to have fun and get a decent record done.

Did the studio manager know this? If not, those mistakes happen. If it was painfully clear, then the studio manager was out of line. Actually, if the client were just calling on the phone prior to being at the studio, then I could understand if the studio manager made such a comment as they would be helping facilitate the project. Once the client is at the studio with the team, that kind of comment is totally inappropriate.

[cgarges]

The band didn't call the studio to book the session. I did. I set the whole thing up.

Either way, do your homework before you go putting your foot in your mouth. (Not you, Jeff, the studio manager in this particular case.) Fortunately, the guy this happened to thought it was hysterical, but I know a lot of people who might have gotten really pissed off about this kind of thing. I mean, I'm not necessarily MAD about it, but it's (obviously) been bugging me for a few years. And I'd definitely give it a second thought if I had the chance to book a project in that location again.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[the finger genius]

" Then studio manager then says, "Is everything cool with Chris? Because if it's not or if you guys aren't happy, we have some guys here who can help you out."

Who was producing and was there a signed contract? If you were not the producer then you had nothing permanent in the arrangement. A band will make a decision on a studio for different reasons than an engineer would.

When an engineer brings business into a studio, it's a total dick move to try and funnel that business away from the engineer. Having a signed contract (or not) doesn't change that. I would have never brought any business back to that studio, and I would have let the owner know why.

[TapeOpLarry]

I remember a studio that would get a session booked by an engineer/producer and then many times would try to take that job away and hand it to an in house person by going directly to the band or management. Needless to say many folks caught on and it didn't do the studio or "house" engineer any favors down the line.

[@?,*???&?]

I remember a studio that would get a session booked by an engineer/producer and then many times would try to take that job away and hand it to an in house person by going directly to the band or management. Needless to say many folks caught on and it didn't do the studio or "house" engineer any favors down the line.

There's always the big name guy (unmentioned here, but you all know him) that double and triple books his day as a producer/engineer and then tries to hand off the project to the in-house assistant engineer so that the studio covers the cost and he doesn't have to be around for the project he doesn't really want to do.

I got caught in one of these and he had the studio manager call me at home- I had previously chosen NOT to work the session because I knew he would do this- and he was begging me to come in because the assistant he was stuck was really green. Green to the point of not being a first engineer?!? Obviously, he had planned this out ahead of time and knew he could get away with it if I were there.

I chose not to first engineer/produce for $10 an hour and not get credit for it.

Was I wrong?

[cgarges]

Was I wrong?

Not at all.

I saw an artist do this, too (also an artist who everyone on here know about). I'm sure this happens all the time, but the artist didn't get a producer for the project and didn't even get an engineer for the project. He was just using the house assistant as THE engineer (while he had 2" machines and mini-consoles set up in every iso booth so as to be working on four or five different things at once) and not paying him for being the engineer on a major-label project.

That's shitty, too.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[JGriffin]

Hey, I've got one for you guys.

...

You brought business into their studio, you were a co-producer, the band was your client...and the studio tried to poach them from under you. Totally not cool.

[Ron's Brother]

Hey, I've got one for you guys.

I once did a project for a band where several studios were involved. I had been working with this band for about 12 days (over maybe a month or two) when we got to this one particular studio. Keep in mind that one guy in the band had been a close friend for a long time and that when we were trying to figure out the schedule, locale, etc, for the various stages of the project, I was the one who recommended where we should work. This involved a bit of "studio auditioning" at various locations and we chose a place where we thought we'd be comfortable and where we could get a lot done in a short amount of time.

The band happy with the choice of studio and were apparently happy with me as an engineer, since we were like two weeks into the project. At one point during the sessions at the aforementioned studio, one of the guys (my close friend, actually) was hanging out in the lounge while I was in the control room working and the studio manager asks the band if everything is okay and if they're satisfied. The guy from the band says, "Oh yes, very much so." Then studio manager then says, "Is everything cool with Chris? Because if it's not or if you guys aren't happy, we have some guys here who can help you out."

Now, this guy in the band thought it was funny and pretty much immediately told me about it. I was shocked at that. In some ways, I understand where the studio manager was coming from --looking out for the interest of the band, trying to make sure they could provide any possible service to help the project, etc.-- but I do think that a line was crossed. The band was surprised by it and again, they thought it was funny. I wasn't sure how to feel about it at the time and I haven't brought it up here before, but it happened a long time ago and since all this time has passed and I'm still kind of shocked and appalled at what I think was fairly unprofessional behavior, I thought I'd get you guys' take on it. I never said anything to the studio manager, the owner, or anyone else who worked there and I've never talked about it publicly before.

At this point, it's pretty much irrelevant, but I'm curious.

Thoughts?

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

I wonder... you are close friends with the band. Would this include "fighting like brothers" Any chance you might have called someone in the band poop head and he called you jerk face; you guys knew you were kidding but maybe the studio owner didn't know, hence the "everything ok?"

[chris harris]

I'd be shocked if the Studio Manager didn't know exactly who booked that session. Total dick move. But, people who do underhanded business like this eventually pay the price.

[cgarges]

I wonder... you are close friends with the band. Would this include "fighting like brothers" Any chance you might have called someone in the band poop head and he called you jerk face; you guys knew you were kidding but maybe the studio owner didn't know, hence the "everything ok?"

Nope. Not in this scenario.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>"Chris' scenario with the poaching studio manager"<<<<


>>>>I remember a studio that would get a session booked by an engineer/producer and then many times would try to take that job away and hand it to an in house person by going directly to the band or management. Needless to say many folks caught on and it didn't do the studio or "house" engineer any favors down the line.<<<<


I've never experienced this stuff on sessions (more ego-flexing than actual slimey business like this), but it happens all the time in the live music scene. A club owner will ask to book the band without an agent, or an agent "double contracts" a gig (quotes one price to a venue, and a different one with the artist, and pockets the difference _plus_ takes a commission).

In my experiences in the live arena, I've wound-up with _both_ sides hating me for trying to do the right thing. I'm saddened (but not at all shocked) to hear that this crap happens in bigger studios to engineers with maj credit as well...

GJ