Just trying to understand...

[CZ]

I think if artists, musicians, etc., feel compelled to achieve a sound or write a song that is, in some sense, reminiscent of the past (literally and figuratively) and, perhaps, lacking in a kind of modern sheen, it might be because so much of the world we live in today (at least in 'developed' countries) is inundated with a grossly technical idea of perfection that is often anathema to what it is to be human being.

We're are surrounded by ever-increasing amounts of concrete and computer chips. While I don't think that these are inherently bad (to some extent), it's no wonder that so many people (I'll include myself here) are burdened with various neuroses and a whole host of contrary impulses. For example, I'm pretty sure most of us on here have friends and relatives battling various addictions (or are themselves), whether it be meth or Zoloft. (Although, I think it's a kind of genius when an artist or a band such as Joy Division can evoke a sound that echoes all of modernity/postmodernity and transform it into something sincere and beautiful).

Music is meant to ease the burden. Both in writing and listening. There are a lot of pop songs that I like listening to for the fun of it, but they never get me back to center the way, say, a song like 'On The Nickel' or 'This Woman's Work' do. In fact, they make me feel, in some small, but telling way, more disconnected.

Sorry to wax philosophical here. I don't even know if I made any kind of sense.

[Gregg Juke]

Any kind of sense????

>>>>I think if artists, musicians, etc., feel compelled to achieve a sound or write a song that is, in some sense, reminiscent of the past (literally and figuratively) and, perhaps, lacking in a kind of modern sheen, it might be because so much of the world we live in today (at least in 'developed' countries) is inundated with a grossly technical idea of perfection that is often anathema to what it is to be human being.<<<<

That's one of the best quotes I've ever read on tapeOp, or maybe any other site. I'm going to have it made into T-shirts and posters...

Send me your address, and maybe I'll cut you in for a few points. But the Form PA has already been filed; sorry.

GJ

[cjogo]

Nice to see the raw energy of Buffalo Springfield back on the road ..nothing too technically correct . ANd not really fearful of the industries mandates. Great writers from their era .

[CZ]

Send me your address, and maybe I'll cut you in for a few points. But the Form PA has already been filed; sorry. GJ

Done and done! We'll mint a fortune. Thanks, by the way. Insomnia has some benefits, I suppose. (didn't they recently change the form?)

[mscottweber]

(I hope this makes sense)

I think that there are many valid reasons to make music, some of those being to make money, to be cool/sexy/popular, to express feelings in an artistic way, to be a part of a community, etc. I bet all of those reasons combined, with varying ratios, is what drives each of us to create music, and also dictates what kind of music we make and how we make it.

These are quite broad generalizations, but someone who makes music purely for money will make what ever kind of music makes them the most money. Likewise, a guy who is trying to get girls will be inclined to make the sort of music that succesfully gets him girls, and someone who desperately wants to be a part of a group or community is going to write songs and play in bands and put out records that the community will enjoy and accept.

Now, i doubt that anyone is in the music business JUST to make money, but some engineers will take on projects that they aren't necessarily too excited about in order to bring in some cash when there aren't any other, more enticing, jobs knocking at the door. And in that same vein, I'd bet that many musicians will turn down gigs that they know they won't enjoy, even if those gigs are quite lucrative.

Im not trying to say that indie-hipster lofi bands are sellouts, I was just thinking that this perspective of the conversation hasn't been brought up as much as the "I like x style of music because of x" has.

[JGriffin]

And today's "Apropos Of Nothing" award goes to:

Nice to see the raw energy of Buffalo Springfield back on the road ..nothing too technically correct . Great writers from their era .

[MoreSpaceEcho]

~~ ---//....~

[cjogo]

And today's "Apropos Of Nothing" award goes to:

Nice to see the raw energy of Buffalo Springfield back on the road ..nothing too technically correct . Great writers from their era .

Well they were Apropo back in my musical history upbringing ...I know many are listing musical taste through the thread .. just one of mine Neils still rockin' them along.....

[cjogo]

i am sorry that you cannot enjoy a record such as 'back in black'.

No > but I could enjoy 'Black is Black' > great bass riff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVWNZPOUhO8

[cjogo]

Right on, dude. "vintage" != "good".

In the 70's/80's that quantized perfection cost a lot of money, it was bleeding edge stuff and it took a lot of effort to get it. Today, you can drop a few thousand dollars and you can have quantized perfection OR very very good emulations of "old and fucked up" without a whole lot of effort. There's no longer the same barriers ...

Abbey ( & the bands coming through the 60's ) had their Mr Martin and the New World studios have plugins & tracks to the 10th degree. It was a different world ~ more emphasis was on the raw talent > if you couldn't sing , you were the drummer (':P') No quantize or pitch wonders were easily performed...

Think : Brian and his 'family" around one C12 ~ working those vocals -- not much room for any mistakes with a 3-4 track & the Wrecking Crew taking most of the track width already... some magic in those Western years.

[apropos of nothing]

And today's "Apropos Of Nothing" award goes to:

Nice to see the raw energy of Buffalo Springfield back on the road ..nothing too technically correct . Great writers from their era .

Hey. I resemble that statement.

* * *

I'm going to share here, though I have no idea if anyone will read this or care. I've thought a lot about this. The reason for that is that I am a keyboardist with a strong penchant for electronic dance music, abstract ambient, romantic and modernist composers, bop jazz, modern jazz, 60s-80s funk, disco, late 70s/early 80s punk, goth and underground metal.

Do you see what that list leaves off? 90% of everything that makes up the canon of 350 songs we've come to know and dread.

So quantized, perfect music. Yeah, I like a lot of the minimal Berlin techno sound, and UK forms. It is very pretty in a platonic sense. It is powered entirely by fossil fuels, which... (separate rant.) When I DJ (WXDU, Durham), I really like inter-mingle the stripped-down quantized stuff with some jazz and funk. The live performance stuff makes the computerized stuff sound more computerized, and vise versa. Just like the buildup sounds bigger if you position it after a breakdown. Right? Like music? Oh, say -- it IS music. Well, this all makes sense, then.

An interesting foray into the weeds of this topic is presented by Kraftwerk's first album, which is not the neon future robot electro/dance music, but in fact organic (if synthesized) krautrock.

Another is Miles Davis' Bitches Brew which was accomplished by non-linear methods. (...In 1970.) Is that human or perfect? Chick Corea on the keyboards on those discs is awful soulful, but they position him "just so" relative to the drums and bass.

I like how precise accomplished players can be.

In the ends, I think it is all really music. But I'm pretty tired of Led Zeppelin and Depeche Mode. Lady Gaga seems kind of clever now, but I think unless she evolves musically its gonna get stale in 1-3 albums.

So this is why I use drum machines and synthesizers, and also why when I get on a piano I like to play boogie-woogie.

Also, for the record, Radiohead sucks. There is nothing revolutionary about them. They're just very sneaky copiers.

[JGriffin]

And today's "Apropos Of Nothing" award goes to:

...

Hey. I resemble that statement.

* * *

I totally didn't put that together, sorry.

[apropos of nothing]

And today's "Apropos Of Nothing" award goes to:

...

Hey. I resemble that statement.

I totally didn't put that together, sorry.

No worries, man. I rather like this alias, since it gives license to speak the truth from my heart as I see it.

ETA: Also your location quote is teh hysteriklullz!

[donny]

a lot of people are after the "old" sound because they resonate with the immediacy, emotion and spontanious nature of recordings made in the classic era, when musicians, engineers and producers were flying by the seat of their pants with no blueprint for what things were "supposed" to sound like. so they made it up themselves. and now we all copy them in one way or another.

everything now sounds like a rehash because everything is a rehash. rock music came to existence in the '50s and developed and matured throughout the '60s. everything since then has been built upon technical progress (more or less) and has become stylized and fragmented versions of the same thing.

[knobtwirler]

Also, for the record, Radiohead sucks. There is nothing revolutionary about them. They're just very sneaky copiers.

Can we just have a new thread about this?