Outboard Preamp Connectivity

[gavintheaudioengineer]

OK, so I'm slowly getting there with my migration out of the box.

I have a 4 channel CLM4000 preamp that I'd like to start using with my set up. Currently, I have a Mackie 32:8 as my preamp stage. The Mackie is also used to create headphone monitor mixes by tapping into each channel from the aux bus.

My input signal flow is normalized through a patch bay to allow interruption at all points of the signal chain i.e if I wish, I can patch the room boxes before they reach the desk, I can patch the desk channels before they reach the recorder etc. The CLM connections are also terminated on a patchbay.

Now I understand that my first connection should be to patch some room box connections to the inputs of the CLM. I can phantom from the CLM if needed and all is good.

I am stuck on where to go next. I COULD patch the CLM directly into the recorder, however since this would bypass the desk I would not be able to tap into the CLM signals for a headphone mix. So I need to find the best way to allow the CLM signal to flow through the desk before it reaches the recorder.

Am I right in thinking that the best connection into the desk would be to patch the CLM outputs into the Mackie channels LINE INPUTS? Does the pre amp raise the gain to a line level signal?

Or do I patch the CLM outputs into the MIC INPUTs on the Mackie as the normalled connection usually does? My worry is that the signal would be too hot, and since the Mackie banks its phantom across 8 channels each, I'm concerned about the implications of a second lot of 48V coming from the Mackie into the back of the CLM.

The CLM is worth quite a lot to me, so I don't want to 'experiment' in the fear of damaging it. If you guys know of a 'best practice' set up, I'd love to know!

[evilaudio]

Inserts on the 32/8? You may have to plug the 1/4" connectors "half-way" in to get signal flow, but I seem to remember doing this with my d8b with external pres - avoiding a second preamping stage... I do know if you go line in OR mic in - it still gets amplified or attenuated. Not ideal.

[gavintheaudioengineer]

I've tried this technique before, seems the inserts are post gain, hence I need to add gain on the mixer before it gets to the clm. Not ideal, since it's the colour of the clm I want, not the mackie pres.

I'll try with the line inputs I think, and see what sort of signal I'm able to achieve.

[wesley.wittich]

I've tried this technique before, seems the inserts are post gain, hence I need to add gain on the mixer before it gets to the clm. Not ideal, since it's the colour of the clm I want, not the mackie pres.

Don't you want post gain on the Mackie if you're using external preamps? This seems like what you would want to me.

Mic -> CLM Preamp -> Insert Return on Mackie -> Mackie Output to Recorder

If I understand this all correctly, you shouldn't need to add any gain on the mixer before the CLM, that is what the CLM is for. It should be the gain stage before the insert return and the rest of the channel strip on the Mackie.

Or am I missing something?

WS

[E.Bennett]

Why can't you patch the preamp directly to the recorder and monitor post recorder through your console? Is there any type of latency issue? I would assume the most direct route would be best.

[gavintheaudioengineer]

I'm using a mix TDM system so I guess latency is minimal, but my best practice has always been to monitor pre DAW from the desk to negate any latency issues no matter how small. I'd like to stick to this if possible.

I took evilaudios reply as meaning that I still mic in to the mackie, but with zero gain and then feed through the CLM via the inserts- and this hasn't worked in the past since having zero gain on the mackie simply cuts the signal out from the path thereafter, the CLM is trying to amp nothing.

BUT I haven't tried mic>CLM>insert return. This makes more sense since it bypasses the desk pre stage. I'll give it a go and report back!

[gavintheaudioengineer]

So I had the opportunity to try MIC>CLM>Insert Return this weekend and it worked perfectly!

Using the CLM pres has brought a noticable difference to the quality in the signal path- transients and HF response are all much smoother and the overall sound more robust.

Thanks for the tips guys! All I need to do now is get those damn 888s out of the loop and I'm rolling!

[Snarl 12/8]

Wouldn't mults be the best way to go?

[Chris_Avakian]

wouldnt a mult drop the signal level?

[wesley.wittich]

Wouldn't mults be the best way to go?

The only way I can see to use mults in this situation would be:

Mic => CLM Inputs => Mults => 1 split to Recorder/1 split to Mackie for Mon. Mix

Is that what you're suggesting? If so, it would definitely work, but I think it's unnecessary, and it loses the possibility of EQ going to tape (I don't know if this is a problem, but it's worth considering).

[chris harris]

I'd rather get the tones I want from mic selection and placement, than from the Mackie EQ.

[Snarl 12/8]

Wouldn't mults be the best way to go?

The only way I can see to use mults in this situation would be:

Mic => CLM Inputs => Mults => 1 split to Recorder/1 split to Mackie for Mon. Mix

Is that what you're suggesting? If so, it would definitely work, but I think it's unnecessary, and it loses the possibility of EQ going to tape (I don't know if this is a problem, but it's worth considering).

That's what I was thinking. A split on the CLM outputs. I didn't think about the eq, cause I don't eq much when tracking, but I guess that would be a dealbreaker for some people. If I had some pres that were orders of magnitude better than any of the circuitry in my board (I don't) I'd be trying to put as little between them and my converters as possible. On the other hand, I fix a lot of shit that ain't broken.