Drum triggers?

[AnalogousGumdropDecoder]

Have a few questions about drum triggers.

1) Do drum triggers normally require some sort of drum synthesizer or do they send a MIDI signal that I could run into a computer to trigger samples or software synths?

2) Would it be feasible to record both the sound of the live drums and the trigger outputs simultaneously, or would the triggers significantly affect the acoustic sound of the drums (and how so?)?

3) Any recommendations for good, cheap triggers?

Thangs.

[chris harris]

1. Yes. You'll need something to convert the impulses to a MIDI signal. You can do this with a drum module or with a stand alone box.

2. Maybe. They might dampen your drum heads.

3. I wouldn't even mess with drum triggers in 2011. Not necessary. Just try Drumagog or APTrigga, or some other drum replacement plugin.

[tomlynham]

1. As subatomic pieces mentioned, you do need a box to convert the impulses from a drum trigger (basically a momentary switch that connects a low-voltage circuit between the tip and ring of a mono 1/4" cable) to a MIDI signal. If you want to do it at a low cost, just find a cheap old drum module on Ebay with a MIDI out and six to eight 1/4" trigger-ins.

2. You're going to need to muffle your toms a little bit to successfully use triggers. A wide open 16" floor tom head will reverberate and flap enough to possibly trip the trigger more than once. So putting triggers on is just part of the process of controlling the toms. Bass drums and snares are loose and tight enough respectably that your sound won't be affected by a little trigger. So yes, you can (and imho should) use the acoustic drum sounds along with the triggered sounds in tandem.

3. Subatomic Pieces said that triggers are not necessary in 2011. I disagree with this -- it's a little like saying that guitar pedals and amps are not necessary, since you can apply effects in your DAW. For the drummer to hear the triggered drum sounds is essential to his or her performance.

Also, the MIDI track that you create from the trigger in your DAW will show you the exact moment that the drummer hit the head. The snare mic will always have some bleed from the hi-hat, and the floor tom mic will always have some bass drum and rack tom. Trigger MIDI channels, independent from the audio channels, will show you exactly where you should put replacement hits.

As for cheap triggers, you might start with the stick-on type, such as the Pulse TK-5 set. Or the ddrum Red Shots, which mount on the rim. Neither of these are super high quality, but they'll work for just messing around and deciding whether or not drum triggering is what you want to do.

[farview]

Triggers are just contact mics.

If you want a midi signal, you will need a drum brain to convert the trigger signal to midi.

If you want isolation, triggers work great with Drumagog. All you have to do is record the triggers just like you would a mic and insert Drumagog on each channel.

The triggers do not muffle the drums and if you tune the drums properly so they don't ring on forever, you won't have any problems. Pantera was using triggers and mics live beginning in 1990 with no problems.

[AnalogousGumdropDecoder]

Thanks for your wealth of knowledge.

[sessionsatstudiom]

Alesis made a DM4 and DM5 that just took a line level input from the Mic'ed drum and then converted to either a drum sound or midi signal or both at once.
Many clubs I played in had them to help the "Pizza Chef"/soundguy make the drums sound decent in the club.

[farview]

The DM4 and DM5 were meant to work with triggers. But since triggers are just contact mics, you can use any signal you want to trigger the sound/midi.

Back before computers, I would use a 58 into a preamp into a drum brain and hit the 58 to replace a drum part. It worked really well for double bass stuff where the drummer's hands were more accurate than his feet. I would just make him reperform the kick part by hitting the 58 with his hands.

[joel hamilton]

Back before computers, you could use the lowly SPX90 by recording a kick drum you liked int it, and then have the sample play back based on a threshold you set.
I would re-record that sound, blend it in with the original (usually), and then go back to the symphonic patch, or possibly a room verb set to .7...
Clearly, that was warmer than drumagog, because it was on tape.
I use drumagog these days, or some sort of white noise burst from a synth, or I re-record the snare with a guitar amp and snares in front of it...
I would actually LOVE to talk to someone about manufacturing a set of "acoustic triggers" that I use all the time... using resonant bits of this and that taped/clamped/attached to the drums to get a specific sound.
Anyone?

Anyway:
As usual , this depends greatly to what you are trying to do.

[AnalogousGumdropDecoder]

Back before computers, you could use the lowly SPX90 by recording a kick drum you liked int it, and then have the sample play back based on a threshold you set.
I would re-record that sound, blend it in with the original (usually), and then go back to the symphonic patch, or possibly a room verb set to .7...
Clearly, that was warmer than drumagog, because it was on tape.
I use drumagog these days, or some sort of white noise burst from a synth, or I re-record the snare with a guitar amp and snares in front of it...
I would actually LOVE to talk to someone about manufacturing a set of "acoustic triggers" that I use all the time... using resonant bits of this and that taped/clamped/attached to the drums to get a specific sound.
Anyone?

Anyway:
As usual , this depends greatly to what you are trying to do.

What you just said made very little sense to me, but sounded intriguing nonetheless.

[lionaudio]

the most reliable triggers are the ddrum triggers that actually screw on to the drum.. the sticky triggers are cheap and suck.. if you are looking for a brain, i would also go with ddrum. I had the brain and triggers for a couple of years. it literally took me a whole week to set the triggers and input sensitivity correctly for the first session i did with them. At this point I was using an HD24 to record so I didn't have drumagog.. now I do, and all I can say is it is a hell of alot easier to sample replace than it is to trigger a brain

[joel hamilton]

Back before computers, you could use the lowly SPX90 by recording a kick drum you liked int it, and then have the sample play back based on a threshold you set.
I would re-record that sound, blend it in with the original (usually), and then go back to the symphonic patch, or possibly a room verb set to .7...
Clearly, that was warmer than drumagog, because it was on tape.
I use drumagog these days, or some sort of white noise burst from a synth, or I re-record the snare with a guitar amp and snares in front of it...
I would actually LOVE to talk to someone about manufacturing a set of "acoustic triggers" that I use all the time... using resonant bits of this and that taped/clamped/attached to the drums to get a specific sound.
Anyone?

Anyway:
As usual , this depends greatly to what you are trying to do.

What you just said made very little sense to me, but sounded intriguing nonetheless.

That is normal to feel this way. I am like a blinky-light-box-thingy with no actual purpose. Like a curiosity, sitting on the coffee table.

Glad I could help.