Soundproofing Paint?

Post by **TapeOpLarry** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:05 am

They say it can. I really don't think so!

http://www.vertetek.com/

paganski · Post by **paganski** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:37 am

TapeOpLarry wrote:They say it can. I really don't think so!

http://www.vertetek.com/

If you look at the test data, you will see that the transmission loss plot is actually for an insulated steel stud panel with sheetrock on both sides! Their "soundproofing" paint was applied to the source side of the panel. No unpainted panel for comparison.

http://www.vertetek.com/public/pdf/Test%20Data.pdf

The quest for the holy grail continues...

Paul

PS: thanks for inspiring me to post. I am a constant lurker.

Galen Ulrich Elfert · Post by **Galen Ulrich Elfert** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:36 pm

Have you ever lifted a can of old lead based paint? I bet 30 coats of that might make a bit of a difference. Of course, you'd probably start to run into some other problems...

MiiMCorp · Post by **MiiMCorp** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:01 pm

I first forwarded the information to Larry.
I heard about the product and started to investigate how effective it might really be.
In the last few days I have learned a whole lot about testing methods and the reading of the "fine print".
The company told me there will be a new document on their site soon describing a real world test.

I hope this turns out to be a useful thing and I appreciate your feedback as it comes in

MjL

norton · Post by **norton** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:52 pm

The test sheet says a total of 32 deficiencies....which leads me to believe that the overall stc rating of 52 is HIGHLY suspect in real world applications.

I like the idea of damping a wall from the outside, and that's what I imagine they are going for... Rubber paint and all. However, I'd like to see these results repeated at orfield labs, or another facility before I buy into it full on.

DrummerMan · Post by **DrummerMan** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:54 pm

While we're on the subject, has anybody else ever tried this stuff, or better yet does anyone know of any scientific study of it's effectiveness?
http://www.noxudolusa.com/sound_damping ... mping.html

When I was building out my trailer studio, I gave it a go and sprayed it on the inside of the aluminum skin to kind-of beef up that leaf. It wasn't TOO expensive for the small area I was covering and it didn't seem like it would hurt. It's pretty thick and nasty but it definitely turned a hollow-ish BONK! (when knocked with my knuckles) into a pretty dead THUD... Beyond that, though, I'm really just guessing.

I'd be curious to see if this has any actual practical value, as the idea of having something you can spray in between and all over studs could (in theory) serve the purpose of adding damping mass while also helping to seal up any tiny holes or cracks that may have been missed by the caulking gun.

The lack of any supporting data on their website (though they do have some VERY informative videos with AWESOME music) and the fact that it's sold by one of the local purveyors who has a reputation for pushing well-documented snake-oil type soudproofing products leads me to think that it's all just wishful thinking.

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:03 pm

For my ceiling I did the tried and true method: insulation, drywall, green glue, drywall. Worked pretty well. I don't really see how paint would help, but then again the green glue really worked, so who knows?...

Ethan Winer · Post by **Ethan Winer** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:12 am

Brett Siler wrote:I don't really see how paint would help, but then again the green glue really worked, so who knows?...

Green Glue works on a solid acoustic principle, versus "acoustic" paint and lead and heavy vinyl sheets. Well, those have a principle too, but they're not massive enough to do much. The cheapest and most effective mass is drywall. I can't understand why anyone would pay ten times more for special materials that in the end only add mass. Mass is cheap!

--Ethan

MiiMCorp · Post by **MiiMCorp** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:51 pm

I spoke today with acoustician, Chips Davis.
He has done work for a friend at Apple.
He ran me through the test documents and told me what to look for.
So at least I feel better informed.
His analysis was that the product could very well do what it claims to.

But as mentioned here, so could adding additional mass to the wall through other methods.
I also realized that the paint, after being applied according to instructions would be 24 millimeters.

I am hoping to work with a studio here in my town that does video work for a fair number of clients in the music tools business.
They have a "green screen" room that has some audio problems.
If it works out, we will get before and after audio and shoot some video of the application.

MjL

Nate Dort · Post by **Nate Dort** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

MiiMCorp wrote:I also realized that the paint, after being applied according to instructions would be 24 millimeters.

I'm not seeing anything on the site that describes the final thickness of the coating. Where did you see 24mm? Are you sure it's not 24 mil? "mil" is a standard unit for measuring thickness of a coating. 1 mil = 1/1000 in

*used to work in the paint industry

Ted White · Post by **Ted White** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:36 am

Ethan Winer wrote:
Green Glue works on a solid acoustic principle, versus "acoustic" paint and lead and heavy vinyl sheets. Well, those have a principle too, but they're not massive enough to do much. The cheapest and most effective mass is drywall. I can't understand why anyone would pay ten times more for special materials that in the end only add mass. Mass is cheap!

--Ethan

Great summary

MiiMCorp · Post by **MiiMCorp** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:02 pm

Seems I was wrong.
It is mils

Nate Dort wrote:
MiiMCorp wrote:I also realized that the paint, after being applied according to instructions would be 24 millimeters.
I'm not seeing anything on the site that describes the final thickness of the coating. Where did you see 24mm? Are you sure it's not 24 mil? "mil" is a standard unit for measuring thickness of a coating. 1 mil = 1/1000 in

*used to work in the paint industry

Ted White · Post by **Ted White** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:23 am

This is another example of an extensional (surface) damping compound. They work. certainly, however an extensionally damped system is much less efficient than a constrained layer system.

MJL mentioned this may work as well as simply adding mass. And he's so right. Their wall tested to STC52. Take the same 24" OC steel stud wall and add a second layer of $8 drywall and you get... STC 52. Same bump in performance with only drywall.

I also have issue with the huge labor, and question how presentably smooth that wall would be when done. Seems like you'd have to cover with drywall to get it smooth...

By the way, if a proper extensional damping compound were inserted in that aforementioned STC 52 wall, you'd get STC 62. Much less labor and much less cost. And you have almost 8 years of history with the extensional damping compound. Low VOC, no mixing, water base, etc.

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