Questions for Toft ATB users

[deakin]

Hello,

I'm looking for some advice on the Toft ATB (16 or 24). I have dredged through this forum and a few other (gearslutz, etc...). Opinions are what they are and I've seen a lot of them. but i felt it would be helpful to ask a few direct questions of my own.

I do a lot of project studio recording and have begun to delve into helping other people make records. My current set up is:

IMac running Logic
Apogee Rosetta 800
some mics

for awhile I was partnering with a bandmate who had a bunch of decent mic pres (avalon, trident, neve) but we are no longer sharing space so the only mic pres I have are on my Mackie 1402 (hahahahahaha!).

I want some good pres. In my research I came across the Toft ATB line and damn if isn't alluring (i'll be the first to acknowledge my weakness for aesthetic appeal). I have wanted a good mixer for awhile too. I mix ITB all the time and on some level have grown very used to it. Many of my projects get into the 30-50 tracks range with a lot of automation. but I also do a lot of processing with outboard effects. So the idea of having a mixer that I can use as a buss mixer for my mixes is really appealing. While looking at the ATB stuff (16-24) I imagine that I would be pretty psyched having 8 ins for mics and DI stuff and then have the 8 outs of my Apogee to run sub mixes to.

here are my questions:

1. Mic pre's. everyone talks about how great the Eq's are on this board. but am I getting a worthy bang for my buck on the mic pres? Or would I be spending my money better to get some Avalon DI's and 2-4 channels of mic pres (API or some such)? given that I am increasingly sold on the idea of having a great OTB mixing console I'm starting to get less psyched on having a bunch of great rack pres but still needing to do ALL of my mixing ITB.

2. Aux sends - I have read some people seem less than psyched on the aux returns vs. just coming back into a channel on the board. I am trying to determine whether I would want the 16 or the 24. if the aux sends/returns are great then great. if they aren't than I would lean towards the 24 so I could have 8 dedicated to go into my rosetta, 8 dedicated to coming back out of my rosetta and the additional 8 for aux returns (seems a bit overkill when I write it out). although I suppose the 24 would leave room for expansion if I wanted to have more than 8 dedicated inputs down the line.

3. I see people are selling them used now and again. the reduced price seems great on some level. but in my modestly older years I have begun to really enjoy the comfort of warranty service. I've read on a lot of boards that when people have had maintenance issues that Toft is pretty good about getting someone out to help with repairs. any feedback on whether people have felt that buying these boards new was worth it for that reason?

my primary question is about the mic pres. I'm not looking to break the bank necessarily and I know that the quality of my recording has more to do with performance/instrument/room/mic placement than it does with mic pres or summing or any of that business. but I still feel that if I am gonna go for anything more expensive than my trusty 1402 (hahahahahaha) that it is worth making a decent jump.

Thanks for your time.
josh

[Ryan Silva]

Hey Deakin,

I?ve been using a Toft ATB16 v2 for about 2 years now.

To address your main question first, the Preamps can be a little on the dark side, but for most things I think they sound great. I have some API?s, Neve, and some M series UA stuff, but I still use the Toft preamps on Overheads because sometimes they tame trashy cymbals nicely. Toms still sound punchy, and I think they do fairly well on electric and strummed acoustic guitar.

Aux Sends: Yes at times I would prefer to return on a channel with EQ instead of a boring aux return, but hey that?s what outboard EQ?s and patchbays are for. If you have the inclination, space, and funds, by all means get the 24 or 32.

Used ATB?s: BE VERY CAREFULL!!!

As you may already know the ATB had a ?Pilot? model, and they are often being sold for really cheap. The reason why is that the early models lack support in the center of the console. So as the story goes, the sagging would cause certain components to lose connection after time. The v2?s frames have been reinforced. Also in version 2, balanced connections throughout (unbalanced insert points), Direct channel output I think was also an added feature. Upgraded faders, and a simple meter-bridge install, you had to drill your own holes in the ?Pilot? model. What am I a carpenter?

On how I mix with the ATB:

I tend to do most of the ?Heavy Lifting? ITB. Notch EQ?s, Gates, DeEssing, and Time Delays. Then I group too my Lynx Aurora 16, then to the Toft. Then I start patching outboard gear, like comps to Kick, Snare, Room Mics, Bass, and Vocal. I love the Toft EQ?s, but they can only do so much without bandwidth control, so I shape things more with shelves than I do any deep boosts or cuts.

I use the Groups in Mixing when I?m crushing the entire drum track or something, or if I want to have fader control of an AUX return. During tracking is when the groups earn there keep. I make groups to send to my headphone mixer.

Everything goes back through the Aurora for mixdown.

A song I recorded with the Toft a couple years back, Toft amps on OH, Toms, Room Mics:

http://www.floodplainstudio.com/Kite%20 ... lright.mp3

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Ryan

[Mane1234]

You might want to look at other boards for example the older Soundcraft boards like the 600 series. They're quite huge but they have nice sounding pres and you get to return your sends back in to the board. Granted they may not have all the features of the Toft but if you're looking at a certain price point then maybe that or the Soundcraft Ghost is an option.

I know what you mean though, I think the Toft is a fine looking board. I've thought about one too.

[deakin]

Thanks Guys,

really appreciate the thoughtful responses.

I think I'm leaning towards doing it. I found what feels to be a reasonable deal on a new one. All I really need to do now is try and figure out whether to get the 16 or the 24.

The 24 seems like a bit of overkill right now. but the 16 leaves no room to grow as best as I can tell. with all 16 channels dedicated to the ins and out on my rosetta I would be forced to use aux returns. given that a lot of the reason that I want a board in the first place is that I do so much "dub" mixing with outboard gear, it seems like it would be nice to have some open channels for aux returns. that being said, I see a crash course in patch bay wiring in my near future.

I'm gonna try and think about how I would use the same money on pres and mics if I were to NOT get the ATB.

anyway... thanks a lot for the responses. Really helpful.

all the best,
josh