Gear Proposal for Mobile Recording

[etwaudio]

Hey all. I'm in the process of trying to budget out expenses for starting a mobile recording business for after I graduate while I'm interning and trying to build up my reputation/skills as an engineer working in diverse situations. I'm trying to avoid spending over $200 on any one microphone and stay under a $3000 total budget. I already have an ADK laptop, a Presonus Firestudio Project interface, a pair of Fostex PM0.4 monitors, ample XLR cables, Pro Tools 9 (soon to be 10), Cubase 5, and a good deal of plugins. Here's what I have so far (prices from sweetwater.com and recordinghacks.com):

Microphones:
2x SM57 - $200
1x Cascade Vin-Jet - $190
2x AKG Acoustic Perceptions 220 - $320
1x CAD M179 $179
1x EV N/D 868 - $190
1x Heil Sounds PR-40 - $290
1x Heil Sounds PR-20 - $140
Total=$1,460

Headphones & Amp:
1x Behringer AMP800 - $65
4x Shure SRH240A - $240
Total=$305

Stands & Accessories:
3x short (2x K&M25900, 1x K&M25950) - $260
5x tall (2x K&M21021 3x K&M210/9) - $535
1x Stereo Bar -$25
1x Gator Studio-2-Go Case w/ Wheels - $140
Total=$960

Any suggestions, thoughts? Any gaping holes you see I missed? I'm going for cheap, reliable, and diverse. I prefer to track everything I can live and then only overdubbing as necessary so my main goal with this setup is to be able to record a 4-piece band live, w/ 8 channels. Also, I'll need some 1/4" cables of varying lengths to connect some of the gear and some headphone extenders, suggestions?

Thanks!

[T-rex]

I haven't used most of that gear, so I can't comment on that but I will suggest that you buy the stuff used when you can. The sm57 for instance, you can pick those up all day long for $65 a piece. Look at the Tape Op or Gearslutz classified and buy from people who have been on the forums for a while or have solid itrader ratings. I like Sweetwater actually, but you will save a ton of money.

Also, you might want to consider building some kind of portable gobos to help with isolation around the drums or at least around the amps depending on the room.

[Jim Williams]

8 tracks won't be enough. Target 24. Many bands won't fit in 8 tracks. Many more won't pay for only 8 track recordings. They can get their friends to record them on a Zoom for free.

Reliability to me means no dependence on a laptop. To many things can and do go wrong. You only have one chance to get it right. One bad experience and your rep is ruined.

I use a Alesis HD24XR, very reliable. I use a used analog console to feed it and monitor it back, a small 16x4x2 Soundcraft Delta I can carry in. I paid $550 for that. I add a 8 channel 1RU mic/line preamp to feed the extra 8 tracks, those can be monitored back through my group modules. I paid $100 for that used.

Add the mics, cables, a couple of bar stools and a set of cans and I'm good to go. Results are first rate.

[kslight]

I'm not trying to poop on anyone's parade, but as I am in the mobile business a bit...here are a few things to consider:

1. Buy everything used, seriously. Your credit and your wallet will thank you later. For a point of reference I bought out most of a small studio's microphones, headphone system, mic stands, racks, power conditioners, and an Alesis HD24XR (like Jim suggested) for under $2000 off Craigslist. It was all mint condition, just a poor guy getting divorced so he had to liquidate...right place and right time for me. I got a lot of really decent microphones with that, no Neumann's for sure but no junk at least...a couple SM57s, a couple E906s, D112, KSM44, pair of NT5s... All of the gear has paid for itself and I'm not making credit card payments on it.

2. What is your specialty with your mobile setup? Basics? Overdubs? Live concerts? Sounds like you want to do basics. My opinion on the mobile setup doing basics is... First, you're going to be fighting whatever half-assed practice space the band is setup in....obviously bleed but more importantly still, the room acoustics. Second, unless you have serious money (lots more than $3k) you are going to be competing with the band's friends most likely, who are going to work for next to nothing and probably have relatively low end gear like you...I personally think it would be hard to be able to charge enough in that niche to be worth your time, unless you like being a charity. Third, there is a lot of setup time involving your own equipment/cables/et cetera that you will need to put together/take down (unless you want to trust your equipment at their house overnight). Best case scenario I think the band should go to a proper studio for at least basics.

If you went for overdubs, buy a couple channels worth of good preamps/compressors/microphones...better quality stuff than the average home hobbyist recorder will have...much more manageable in a mobile setup.

And obviously live concerts are more complicated because you are talking splits, lots of preamps, additional microphones because the house engineer doesn't put up everything you'd want for recording...


3. Do a lot of research, then research some more!

[etwaudio]

First of all, thanks for all the honest advice, all this is good to know.

Second of all, I think I should clarify my goals. I'm looking for this to be a temporary/on the side thing while I'm working or interning at a studio for the first couple of years after college. I'd be recording demos and EPs for mostly local indie bands for fairly shit pay; probably $150-200 for recording, mixing and mastering up to 5 songs. I'm not trying to record elaborate studio quality albums (hopefully I can book the studio I'm interning or working at for that kind of stuff), just something to get the band some shows and build a fan base. Is this a stupid idea for a way to learn more/make a little cash on the side/build up a base of gear for myself? Note I wont be in NYC or LA trying to do this, most likely Seattle, Portland or Madison, depending on where I can find a studio to take me under.

Third, I love the HD24, the studio at my school uses one for the first two sections of our program, but I've already sunk $1500 into my laptop/interface combo and am looking to have to spend $3000 more on other equip, so I'm unsure of dropping another $1000 into an HD24 + mixer since I already have a method getting things to "tape". Since this will be mostly a side project to working in a real studio would it be worth it?

Fourth, anyone know anything about portable acoustic treatment? What are the bare necessities for making a room usable outside of changing the shape of the room?

Fifth, any thoughts on the gear I do have posted? I've researched all of the mics pretty thoroughly (recordinghacks has used almost all of them in a shootout of some kind) but do you know more? What about that headphone amp?

Also, as a note, I'm not limited to 8 tracks total, just 8 at once. I've run as much as 40 tracks on my laptop without any issues.

Thanks so much!

[kslight]

I think in most decent sized cities there are lots of folks doing recording for shit pay...

If it were me I'd look for a studio you can book at for a reasonable rate...bring bands there to record basics, and have a decent setup for doing mobile overdubs to finish the job.

Internships technically aren't supposed to happen if you are not in college, but I know many studios and individuals operate like this regardless...if you want to do this I'd look for someone who will at least give you studio time.

The HD24 is not an important part of the equation necessarily, Jim suggested it because its a way to record lots of tracks without a laptop...and the XR version is a rather nice and relatively inexpensive way to get good conversion... I use mine for converters that happen to have a recorder built-in. It is handy to have because I studio I do a lot of work at is analog only...so I record to tape and then when I'm done I transfer to the HD24XR and bring it in the Pro Tools. And its nice for live recordings.. So whether or not its worth it depends on the kind of studio you are at and the kind of work you want to do...


I have no experience with any of the gear you posted except for the SM57s so I cannot comment.

[The Scum]

...depending on where I can find a studio to take me under.

I'd hold off on buying anything until you know how that situation is going to play out. For a couple reasons:

You might wind up at a studio that can cut you a deal on time for independent work you bring through the doors. These days, many studios are happy to have anything that comes in.

If your internship is really good, they'll run you ragged. You won't have any free time.

Some studios might also see it as a conflict of interest for you to be working outside, competing with them.

my main goal with this setup is to be able to record a 4-piece band live, w/ 8 channels.

What do you do when the drummer has one more tom than you're accounting for? Or there is one more singer?

I'd strongly urge you to figure out how to get 16 channels. Can you daisy-chain interfaces on the current rig?

Fourth, anyone know anything about portable acoustic treatment? What are the bare necessities for making a room usable outside of changing the shape of the room?

Packing blankets. Empty roadcases. Chunks of wood. 703 in portable frames.

Wednesday night, I was cutting drum tracks from inside a "couch fort" of blankets, baffles and gobos. Very happy with the results.

Fifth, any thoughts on the gear I do have posted?

You could use more 57's. Maybe a 58 or two. There are time where it's handy to have a bunch of similar mics. Or times that you'd rather hand someone a cheap but trustworthy mic, than try to teach them how to sing into an LDC.

A good stereo pair is always useful. Something with switchable polar patterns, perhaps, so you can do traditional stereo techniques (Blumlein, XY, ORTF, etc).

Likewise for a pair of ribbons.

A stage snake might also prove very useful, so you can run the rig from another room, to get a little isolation.

There are also all of the goodies that make up a good ditty bag:
pop filters
flashlight
scotch tape
masking tape
gaff tape
pencils
pens
markers
notebooks
index cards
postits
clipboard
clapboard
tape measure
rope
sandbags
C42s
screwdrivers
pliers
scissors
utility knife
gloves
PB&J
plus the bag itself

And if this is to be portable, cases/bags/boxes for everything. And a dolly. There are situations where simply putting a good, solid handle on something means that it gets carried respectfully.

What about that headphone amp?

It's junk. I used to use it's bigger brother, and the buttons and knobs got flaky, and it just wasn't loud enough for serious work. I was miserable when we were using it.

Moving up to a Mackie HR4 was a great step up. Fewer features, but power where it was needed. I could hear the click over the bass.

Headphone mixes can be pretty critical. While tracking, the musician's impression of the whole experience is delivered through the headphone system. If that system sucks, it can be a frustrating experience.

Whenever I see a Furman HR6 rig, I know I'm on the road to being comfortable.

I'd also consider a wider variety of headphones - something beefy & well sealed for drummers, and something with open backs (maybe even swiveling earcups) for singers.

Also, I'll need some 1/4" cables of varying lengths to connect some of the gear and some headphone extenders, suggestions?

Learn to solder.

Then redco.com and haveinc.com for parts.

[Jeff White]

I also have to hammer it home here that you need to be able to do 16 tracks minimum. That's allowing for some extra channels IF AND WHEN you will need them. and believe me, you will need them.

I have a treated basement studio at my house here in Philly. I can overdub and mix here, shit I even track drums in my huge row house living room from time to time. But I do the majority of ensemble recording around town, from practice spaces, to houses, stages, and shit...now even in NJ backyards!!! (http://bitby.tv/). Though I can get away with more like 12 tracks when recording basics for bands, I find that 16 in the real number of bare minimum. 24 would be next level.

If I were you, I would simply grab a main interface that has ADAT lightpipe i/o, and then grab something like the Focusrite Octopre Mk2 (or Octopre Dynamic), Presonus Digimax FS, etc. You'll have 16 inputs with a bunch of preamps to start, and you can simply use the Octopre's line inputs if you want to use better preamps down the line. I've used this setup a bunch and it has always been rock solid. (I used to have a Digimax LT 6 years ago; I've borrowed and used the Octopre mk2 twice in the past 2 years. I plan on purchasing an Octopre Dynamic later this year.)

And again, as mentioned, buy used. I'd say that 80% of my studio was purchased used over the internet.

Jeff

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi,

You state:

"starting a mobile recording business for after I graduate while I'm interning and trying to build up my reputation/skills as an engineer working in diverse situations"

Spending money now for a completely unknown gig in the vague future, is never a good idea. I've been there, done that. It is frustrating, and you never get your money back.

Do you have a remote gig NOW? Talk to us about that gig. Otherwise it is all speculation. And the economy is not getting better, meaning who knows what will happen after you graduate. Maybe you get gigs, maybe not.

Building your reputation is best done where you will intern, IF you get an internship. If you DON'T get an internship, THEN consider spending some money to get a mobile rig or small home studio together.

You're trying to put the proverbial cart before the horse.

Cheers

[etwaudio]

Well thanks for the reality check everyone, I guess I'll hold off on these plans for a while (though I still think I'm gonna try and get some of the mics because they're cheap and I think I'd like to have them around), at least until I graduate and figure out what my next step is.

Sometimes I just make lists when I get stressed out because they help me feel like I'm more in control and with graduation getting closer and closer I'm getting worried about how things will work out in the future. With the economy struggling, the music industry in tatters, and myself just getting passed over for an internship I really wanted I'm just a little panicked.

Thanks for your honest opinions.

[Brian]

Just keep searching for an internship.
Think about what city you're in.
What's happening THERE?
Why did you get passed up?
Can you work on that?
I've been doing this for 35 years and I'm still nervous about tomorrow etc.
However, nothing beats a good action plan and innovative creative thinking.

Know yourself first:
What is your ultimate goal in your life and your career, separated?
It's crucial to answer these questions early these days I think.

Be resourceful, have a fantastic work ethic, and learn from the best you can find:
I moved with $300 and a fostex 4 track and some tapes I'd made after having built 3 makeshift garage studios by the age of 18 from a small town to NYC, got an internship at a great studio and boogied from there with a work ethic and expertise. I don't know if that would be enough in today's market.
I still win awards, but, I don't work anywhere near as much as I'd like.
My parter and I are starting a mobile VAN with what we have and a mix room.
We have PLENTY of gear all way past payed for, all modded, all killer. The recording rig will go in the van, for bands, movies, and what have you, and the mix room will have three Iso rooms one big enough for a whole band.
We are about to do the numbers and requirements on this thing and I'm sure that if it all works out we should get busy. If we do, you could submit samples and a resume, no matter how slim or thick.

Learn soldering and electronics:
I can tell you this, I have cables that are older than my career. I had many more of them but "help" winding cords killed a lot of them.
I have a 32 and a 16 channel snake I made that is over 20 years old and looks new and functions as such, I use it.
I have a 24 x8 snake and box that's over 20 yrs old still works. I learned to solder and work on electronics with n more instruction than his board and my partner over email. I've modded almost every single piece of gear in my studio. definitely all the mics and most of the pre's and the whole main board.


Take good care of trained ears:
I can do exceptionally good live sound and make good money for that alone, and since I take care of my ears I have great hearing and no tinnitus and have a great recording ability too. I can mix easily. Mostly field stuff but I try to expand my knowledge into other related fields so I can interface with them better and provide timely exemplary service for decent pay. I can win an award on demand as long as the other parts of the production are up to par.

Know your stuff, and theirs.
I learned to play many instruments, write music and lyrics, sing properly, and learned how to teach others to do the same, learned how to improve audio electronics, build instruments, finish instruments, learned about movie sound and video formats including hidef, codecs, how to build a studio, how to set up and break down entire monitor and FOH systems, wireless mics, and recording rigs, all in addition to recording and mixing knowledge, and these days that's not even enough.

Friends and community are key.
Without a proper sales team to market your service (this will be you starting out) you have no chance. Many college grads suck at the service but excel at the sales. Have you seen TV and Movies where the sound isn't sync'd or the Voiceover either doesn't sync or sounds like somebody else (Steven Segall movies). These mistakes are made by "pros". (sometimes you can't avoid them if you're done and someone else gets to work on your project without oversight).

DON'T work for free, unless you benefit greatly from it!
If you're going to screw up the market by taking free jobs, make sure they are high profile enough to do you some god or that you will be learning something crucial to your future success, like digital consoles or what have you. Then don't do it again. Once your rep is established for high quality, price yourself accordingly and don't be afraid to SAY NO to free work or cheapo work.