RMGI vs ATR vs Quantegy-Ethical question?

papercuts · Post by **papercuts** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:42 am

Hello, sorry if I missed it but I don't see a 2012 discussion about different tape manufacturers. I feel like I should support ATR since they are family owned and seem to be in it for the love, and they are in the US. Still, it's more expensive (im using 2") (also I've not used a +9 tape before). And the fact that it's a small operation makes me wonder if it could survive (dumb?). I see on quantegy's twitter that they are ramping up tape manufacturing again? Does anyone have any info on this? I have a certain trust w/them since I grew up on their tape, it's always been reliable. I bought some RMGI a couple years ago and it sounded great but it was not reliable after a few passes, though I hear good things now. And now the company has changed hands and is at a new plant? Have been living off of quantegy one pass but now I want to buy new and support a company that will survive and keep tape alive. But which one? I know there is no answer but I'm curious if anyone else has struggled with this and has any insight. Tape can't die. Cheers,

Jason

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:18 am

I may sound like an arse:

Your ethical questions are best answered by you...

Cheers

blungo2 · Post by **blungo2** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:24 am

Good question. I'd like to know what people's opinions on this are as well.

The guy that sold me my otari mtr recomended RMGI, so that's what we calibrated it for and that's all i've used. I've had no issues with it, even using a tape many times. My machine is 1/2" so i wouldn't have the same investment in tapes as you would.

Still, i would also like to use the best tape and support the company that has the best quality control.

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:11 pm

Well from what I understand Quantegy isn't Quantegy anymore...and when I tried to buy a new reel from them (which they still offered for sale on their website) I never got it and my order got cancelled...had to press for any explanation out of them. Their website today still has the same "we are still working on it" message that it did a year ago. Their Twitter seems to have been updated in the last couple of months but I personally wouldn't bet on them for awhile if they are just "ramping up" unless you like to pay to be a guinea pig (and bet with the potential of destroying whatever work you put to their tape).

So I went with RMGI.

I don't think its really a question of ethics, you go with whomever is dealing the best product for your purposes/price point. I mean...FOR EXAMPLE not trying to make a car debate but I wouldn't buy a Chevy just because its American...any Chevy I've had the pleasure of driving has been equal to or less than a piece of shit.

blungo2 · Post by **blungo2** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:25 pm

kslight wrote:Well from what I understand Quantegy isn't Quantegy anymore...and when I tried to buy a new reel from them (which they still offered for sale on their website) I never got it and my order got cancelled...had to press for any explanation out of them. Their website today still has the same "we are still working on it" message that it did a year ago. Their Twitter seems to have been updated in the last couple of months but I personally wouldn't bet on them for awhile if they are just "ramping up" unless you like to pay to be a guinea pig (and bet with the potential of destroying whatever work you put to their tape).

So I went with RMGI.

I don't think its really a question of ethics, you go with whomever is dealing the best product for your purposes/price point. I mean...FOR EXAMPLE not trying to make a car debate but I wouldn't buy a Chevy just because its American...any Chevy I've had the pleasure of driving has been equal to or less than a piece of shit.

Not to be arguementative, but i think many purchases can involve ethics for some people. In your chevy example, i wouldn't buy it either just because it's american, but i do try to buy american goods when i can and i try to support smaller entities that don't abuse their employees or the enviroment when i can. Different priorities for different folks is ok i think.

banana brains · Post by **banana brains** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:41 pm

I just bought some RMGI SM911. I haven't received it yet and I have no experience with tape (first timer). So, I don't have any good thoughts on that, but I will let you know how it sounds to me after a while.

Also, I like supporting small companies when I find a good one.

markjazzbassist · Post by **markjazzbassist** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:29 pm

i buy NOS tape so i support the really small guy, the ebay businessman

i've bought rmgi sm911, lpr35 and it's always been top notch, they're great.

papercuts · Post by **papercuts** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:27 am

Thanks for the replies. It's good to hear positive things about RMG. I feel like this is one thing in my life that my purchasing decisions could actually have some effect on the world. I've gotten the sense too that quantegy is not to be trusted. Today I tried the phone numbers given on the twitter others that I found, all were invalid.

If anyone has any info about the new rmgi please point me to it. I think I've at least come to the conclusion that I should move away from NOS tape when I can, and buy from ATR or RMGI, (as hard as that is on a budget when 3 rolls cost nearly a grand!)... Hopefully as old tape stock dries up the 2 tape manufacturers will be selling enough to survive.

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:01 am

Full Compass is the cheapest place I've found (in the US) that sells RMGI tape...

markjazzbassist · Post by **markjazzbassist** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:46 am

yeah full compass has great pricing

telepathy · Post by **telepathy** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:03 pm

ATR all the way for me. their tape is physically sturdy and sounds as good as the best Ampex or Quantegy stuff I've ever used. plus Mike and everyone on their staff has been incredibly responsive & helpful to me over the years.

I've had too many issues with old stock tape to be able to trust it. (had one reel from a batch of NOS 456 gum to the rollers so bad that it slammed the machine to a stop!) new RMG tape has worked for me on occasion but I've had too many noticeable signs of physical instability to want to trust serious projects to it, especially the narrower formats. it's gotten to the point that I won't use anything but ATR on any of our machines (they're each set up for it, also).

all my business is tape, so it's huge for me to be able to count on ATR.

Justin Foley · Post by **Justin Foley** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:37 pm

+1 on ATR.

I haven't tried any RMGI recently but the stuff I bought a few years back was unreliable. I understand others have had a better experience. Whatever; I don't want to go into a session worrying about the whether or not the tape is going to work.

Quantegy is not in business right now, at least the business of selling tape. They've been pushing back the "it's almost here!" date on their new stuff for nearly a year. If and when they get something to market, a lot of folks will buy it and see if it's as good as their final vintage was before they shut down. (All of their stuff post-1998 seems to have shown good performance, although the Ampex/Quant stuff before that was real dodgy, especially the 456.) (***EDIT: See Chris's post below.***) Until they're selling something, they're not an option.

ATR's stuff hasn't been perfect for me but it's behaved much better than the RGMI alternative. And my experience with the company has been in line with what I understand their reputation to be - professional, friendly and extremely knowledgable.

The main reason I can see not wanting to go with ATR exclusively is the value of using a different formulation for tracking vs. mixdown. If, 50 years from now, we find out that ATR begins to not hold up after 50 years (something that we won't know until then), then everything done on that formulation will have the same trouble. Using a different tape for the other part of the recording will mean that at least the tracking or mixdown master won't have the same problems. I've sourced a bunch of early 2000's Quantegy (and lucked into a shitload of Emtec) that have worked well; you may want to consider getting some good old stuff if you can.

Anyway, I also don't know why you'd consider this to be an ethical argument. I'm not aware of either existing company being an unethical actor. I have heard rumors about how Quantegy decided to exit their business previously and the impact it had on customers and workers, but nothing solid. I only put it here to see if someone chimes in with some real evidence on this. (I'm sorta curious.)

= Justin

Matt C. · Post by **Matt C.** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:56 am

I'd say just buy a couple reels of each and see what you like.

I use both and have been leaning toward preferring RMGI 911, since my machine seems to like it better than the high output ATR stuff. I've never had any problems with RMGI tape.

last year I ended up with a few bad reels of ATR tape that were shedding like crazy (couldn't make it through one take before the heads were covered in oxide dust). ATR were very nice about replacing it with new tape, which is behaving better now, but I still don't totally trust it. just my two cents.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:24 pm

The last batch of Quantegy I used was in 2006, right after they opened back up for the first time. Within a month's time, between the mix and mastering dates, the 1/4" masters developed dropouts that weren't on the digital references we made from the 1/4" masters at the mix session. That means complete failure in less than 30 days, which also means I'll never buy Quantegy again.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Justin Foley · Post by **Justin Foley** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:45 pm

cgarges wrote:The last batch of Quantegy I used was in 2006, right after they opened back up for the first time. Within a month's time, between the mix and mastering dates, the 1/4" masters developed dropouts that weren't on the digital references we made from the 1/4" masters at the mix session. That means complete failure in less than 30 days, which also means I'll never buy Quantegy again.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Wow. What formulation was it? I haven't had any problems like this, but I guess that the most recent stuff I've had was 2004.

Do you remember what caused the dropouts? Was the binder failing? Not at all doubting you here, just curious as to what could have happened that they would have gone from good to bad.

= Justin

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RMGI vs ATR vs Quantegy-Ethical question?

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