Post your clicks

[lefthanddoes]

Playing along to something interesting is way easier to me. If I'm gonna play along to an artificial electronic thing, I'll program a cool little percussive thing that blends with my drum part, with stuff on the offbeats sometimes (like others have said above).

I also have an artificial tambourine loop that i made out of 4-sixteenth note samples of tambourine playing (chick-a-CHICK-eh). I use that a lot.

good topic.
sort of on-topic....since most of my songs start out with guitar, i've noticed that almost invariably the first couple 'scratch' guitars i record end up being the best, feel-wise. even if i'm playing to a shitty drum machine. basically i feel like the first guitars i throw down sound like The Song, whereas if i try and redo them later, it sounds like i'm playing the song. if that makes any sense.

Yes, this. My by-far favorite technique, which has worked for every single drummer I've worked with (so far), is this: get the rhythm guitar player and put down a couple solid acoustic rhythm guitars to a drum machine beat (kick and snare and everything). I find that guitarists across the board are great at playing along with a beat, much more than a click. If possible I also like to get a scratch vocal on there.
Then, change the beat to a loud click, put on your TR808 shaker, whatever, and play drums along with that. If you get your headphones loud enough and practice a couple times it gets really easy to play along with. I think it's much more exciting because you're making the song sound complete by adding your playing (like when you're playing with a live band), rather than having to use your imagination to pretend it's going to be complete after the fact. Everyone's supposed to play to the vocals anyway, right?

Also, if there's some feel to the drums, it's either based on metronomic time, or it's off and it needs to be fixed (instead of the whole band being off because they followed the drummer). For that reason this technique lends itself really really well to a light touch of Beat Detective over the whole drum track. 35-40% closer to the grid = perfect blend of natural drummer's feel and reliable computer solidness.

[GooberNumber9]

I most often use a virtual instrument like BFD and I build a measure that has a groove that represents the song, both in which parts of a measure get a click and the volume of it. And I make it some instrument or combination of instruments that sticks out but doesn't hurt my ears. Wood blocks and claves and stuff like that are my favorites. Then I try to play along and adjust the measure if necessary, then copy and paste a billion copies or whatever.

Recently my band did a track that had a real shuffle feel, so I made a 12/8 click track and I tried every eighth note with emphasis on the beats, but that just got too messy. So, I took out the second eighth of each beat and got: "CLICK ... cli-CLICK ... cli-CLICK", etc. It was perfect. I find the extra time spent getting a click track that I can really PLAY with and not have to think too hard about helps me get the best performance.

[Snarl 12/8]

Thanks for the great ideas guys. I've got some good stuff to experiment with now.

Just wanted to clarify two things for the record.

I'm not planning on becoming an exclusively "to the click" player. My plan is to mainly just practice to the click, but do actual takes without it. I'm just trying to do another round of getting the solid rhythm "in me." I'd love to be able to play takes to a click and have it rock too, but that's not exactly my main focus here. It's more like ear training for pitch or something.

About the Living Colour. I can see where they would be an acquired taste for a lot of people. I've loved them since "Cult of Personality." Maybe that says more about me than them, but before you judge, listen to that tune again. It's virtuosic in a lot of ways. I've fallen in and out of like with Corey Glover's voice about a dozen times. Mostly like since I saw them live (a pretty long time ago). I was very unprepared for how charismatic that guy is. I'm not talking about between song banter, but somehow making me feel like he was singing to me standing in the back of a crowd of a couple thousand people. You might not like them, but they've got their technology, song-writing, technique and performing act together. IMO.

Edit: Had some facts wrong.

Thanks again for the great ideas/insights.

[vvv]

LC is a awesome live band I've seen a few times.

I believe I saw them on their first time in Chicago. It was at Cabaret Metro and I was one of mebbe 10 people, standing at the edge of the stage drinking whiskey and watching Vernon Reid pedal-dance. The next time they came thru they sold the place out, and a couple months later I saw 'em in back-to-back shows at the sold-out Riviera Theater, which is quite a difference (10 to 1,000 to 2 x 2,500.)

They were totally unique, 3 undeniable virtuoso's and a singer who was a onstage fat ball of personality with a huge voice. "Cult of Personality" was just taking off on MTV, and the sampled voices (triggered from Reid's pedal board) were a cool gimmick. We were RHCP and Fishbone and 24-7 Spies and Bad Brains fans, but these guys were way beyond them in their chops.

Now that I think about it, my band at that time (power-funk trio) used a lot of day-glo spray paint on our pedal boards and mic stands and road cases, etc., in their honor.

If you get the chance, check out the recent James Blood Ulmer records - Reid plays on and produces them and they are excellent.

[Gregg Juke]

I was going to mention "the Bloodman." I am forever grateful to Vernon Reid for those records.

GJ

[Snarl 12/8]

At the risk of derailing my own thread, if you had to buy just two of those Blood records on Amazon, which would they be? I through a couple into my cart, but then realized I had no idea what I was doing.

[vvv]

In this order, me:

The Piety Street Sessions
Memphis Blood: The Sun Sessions
The Electric Lady Sessions tied with Birthright Birthright

[dfuruta]

Birthright is great. That version of Sitting on Top of the World is really spooky.

[Gregg Juke]

I'd put Memphis Blood first, for sure. Followed by the one that came out next (forget the name, but it's a blue cover...).

GJ

PS-- It's Your Thread. Do What You Wanna Do.

[ott0bot]

great topic. thanks or all the good info

its always difficult to make a click feel natural and help the drummer swing a bit...so usually i'll have the drummer lay down a hat or cymbal groove to a click and loop that. I also have some drum loops that an old professor of mine made that I can loop if needed.

some drummers just kill with a click though, and there used to be freeware click called TL Metro that had a ton of great sounds And options. I haven't used it in a bit so it may not mesh with PT 10. gotta try that again.

but heck the last 3 recordings i've done we didnt use a click. while the playing isnt machine precise the feel of the song is captured and I really dont care that its not perfectly "on time." that being said, obviously when I'm working on a project with sequenced material or percussion overdubs gotta have the click.

[fossiltooth]

I use "marimba 2" from the Pro Tools click and turn off the accents. I've used that one for years. It's the only default click in there that I don't mind at all.

[The Scum]

Some slightly more holistic click things to try:

Try a loop with big gated reverb on the snare drum. You'll know you're locked in when it sounds like the reverb is coming from your snare, rather than the loop. It also smears out the sound, so you can hear it while playing drums yourself.

I also shy away from clicks with a lot of white noise sounds (snare, hats, maraca, shaker, etc). I'm already sitting on top of live snare are hats, and I have to turn up the click that much more to give the noisy instruments definition over the live ones. Cowbell is more audible at lower levels.

When you're working with a 1/4 note click, in your mind, forget that it's a machine, form a picture of some super capable, ultra-groovy percussion guy is playing it. Somebody dancing, and putting out seriously good vibes in between all of the quarters. Steve Scales works for me.

Sometime you can just get a quick reference before you start the song, and it will help keep things more consistent. Or try a take with the click, then one without. Sometimes you just need a reminder, not absolute dictation.

You can also try for a purely visual reference - watch it go by, without hearing it. It works well with an old-fashioned swinging metronome...matching a blinking LED is a bit harder. But it can also be useful if you want a bit of reference, without having to worry about being super precise.

[Snarl 12/8]

Thank you Mr. Scum. Those all sound like worthy things to try. I always think you know you're playing right to a quarter note click when you can't hear it, but it does get a little metaphysical after a while. That verb idea sounds like a neat solution to that problem.

[Gregg Juke]

Cool ideas here Carl. I used to do something like The Scum's idea with a particular old Kawai drum-machine that had that kind of snare sound.
I left it in the mix on a track or two...

GJ

[digital eagle audio]

i swear i'm not trolling, but i have no problem with the quarter click. it's the exact feeling of the metronomes forced on us all as children/ students. the rule was always that if you hear the click you're not on it. the problem with beats and subdivisions (other than those provided by the instruments that will be on the recording) is that you're kind of suggesting a groove or rhythm to the performer. it also can interfere with more intricate things, like polyrhythms or long measures.
i can see where building a beat would be cool, but there's also something to be said for getting the performer in there and rocking before lunch.