Stereo mics on acoustic guitar

[OlScrapIron]

I really like the way it sounds when I record acoustic guitar in stereo. What mis would you guys recommend for this setup? I am currently using the Samson C02s.

Mike

[joninc]

You are gonna get 100 suggestions if you don't tell us a little more.

Context? Vibe? Budget?

I have used a lot of different mics on acoustics and for a hifi stereo vibe
Sdc or Ldc are the way to go. Something at about the 12th fret and another 45 degrees looking down at the bridge (for low end). Phase is pretty critical here so
Do your best to match the distance to the guit from capsule. I have used pelusos, neumanns, Lawson's, Akg 460, 414s, 451. Substitute with whatever you have.

If it can be darker and more subtle ribbons could work too. I don't tend to reach for
Dynamics as much if I want stereo, not sure why. Maybe it's too much mids.

[JWL]

I've been recording lots of acoustic singer/songwriters lately. A stereo guitar picture is great, leaving plenty of room in the middle for vocals.

I like using ribbon mics on acoustic guitar, but again it depends on the context.

[boid]

for what joninc describes condensers are working great if you're looking for sparkly with lots of details.
I've found that some guitars/players are too percussive to do that, so ribbons or dynamics work much better.

darker mics tend to make the guitar sound tighter and more direct sounding IMO
but in a dense mix where you need the high frequenzy information to get them to cut through dynamics fall short a lot of the times.

Lately I get much more out of a stereo pair in some distance in a nice room.
Or one fairly close and one room mic panned pretty far apart.
this way you'll get one direct sounding track you can pan where you need it in the mix and then dial in some stereo information/room reverb with the room track
without taking away the distinct pan position of the close mic.

Two close mikes sound fantastic on their own but I feel that a lot of the times you just can't take advantage of that in the mix.

[KennyLusk]

A pair of ADK A6's rule my world lately tracking much more than just AC guitars. I find them really particular nice on guitar amps and surprisingly wonderful for vocals. They're the least sibilant mic I've ever used on vocals and add a little flattery.

But on acoustic guitars the mids are really smooth, highs are a little silky, and lows are full but tight.

[vvv]

I have an A6 - awesome mic that I like on vox, also, tho' it's allegedly designed not for 'em. I want another ...

I feel like I've not been recording enuff acoustic guitar, prob'ly because electric is so much easier to.

That said, I like having a decent tube mic (MXL V69M, even) and an SDC (lately, the cheap ADK SDC - I love ADK mic's, and Larry V. is responsive and accessible, emailing me personally when I was trying to get a replacement wing-screw for a shockmount, and sending it gratis).

[KennyLusk]

I have an A6 - awesome mic that I like on vox, also, tho' it's allegedly designed not for 'em. I want another ...

I feel like I've not been recording enuff acoustic guitar, prob'ly because electric is so much easier to.

That said, I like having a decent tube mic (MXL V69M, even) and an SDC (lately, the cheap ADK SDC - I love ADK mic's, and Larry V. is responsive and accessible, emailing me personally when I was trying to get a replacement wing-screw for a shockmount, and sending it gratis).

VVV, I agree, and no doubt, most people have had similar experience with Larry really standing behind his work.

I bought a second (used) A6 but it didn't come with a stand-mount so I emailed ADK to find out how to buy one. Larry email me asking for my mailing address so he could send me one gratis. Totally unexpected level of customer service on that one. Wasn't the first time he'd given me personalized service like that either.

Its also surprising that the A6 works so well on vocals. I think the greatest secret about that mic is how little sibilance there is (if any), and how the A6 is actually a little flattering. Usually I have to track vocals through an EH12AY7 pre to get a little flattery for my voice. But the A6's straight into a 2i2 does the trick.

And I never expected it to sound so nice on amps, but it does. Trippy how the mic does so well in applications that aren't even touted in ADK's marketing. Nice for a change, really.

[drumsound]

My most used acoustic mics are Audio Technica Pro 37. They are "pre EQ'd" but often sound perfect in a mix. And, they are dirt cheap.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

My most used acoustic mics are Audio Technica Pro 37. They are "pre EQ'd" but often sound perfect in a mix. And, they are dirt cheap.

Agreed. Also amazing how tight the pattern is on those. I've done sessions with Pro 37s on acoustic in the same room with drums. With some careful placement and gobos there was next to no drum bleed on the guitar tracks.

[cgarges]

There are very few things that I do every single time I record, but my usual method for stereo miking acoustic guitar comes REALLY close. For years I have been extremely happy with the results I get from this setup, so I use it almost all the time.

I've had really good luck getting a nice, woody guitar sound by using a Shure KSM141 in cardioid (a STELLAR acoustic instrument microphone) and a Lomo 19a18 tube condenser in an X-Y coincident arrangement near the 12th fret. I usually point the Lomo towards the headstock and that gets panned left (player's perspective) in the stereo field. (The Shure gets pointed towards the body.) If the guitar sound is too "zingy," I might use a Beyer M160 instead of the Shure. Distance from the guitar changes to take advantage of proximity effect and general "distance" in the mix, but it's usually about a foot away or so. From there, the mics almost always go to a pair of vintage API 312s (although the 512Cs sound pretty much the same) or occasionally a pair of Buzz Elixirs, for a little more detail and "modern clarity" (good for classical), or a pair of Telefunken V72s for a "larger than life" hi-fi tube-type sound. These days, I'm usually compressing a little bit with a GML 8900, too, or sometimes an AwTAC Channel Compressor. Usually, no EQ.

That's my standard stereo acoustic guitar thing. I've done plenty of other stuff over the years (spaced pair, mid-side, etc.) and occasionally still do, but that X-Y thing with the 141 and 19a18 is my go-to for a good, solid, fairly realistic recording of an acoustic guitar.

For mono overdubs, occasionally for solos, or for a specific type of sound, I've had good luck with a wide variety of microphones: Altec 175, M11, Neumann KM84, KM184, U47 tube, U47 FET, U87, U89, CMV563/M7, AKG 414, C12/C24, Lawson L251, Sony C37, Shure KSM141, SM77, SM57, Beyer M160, M500, RCA BK5, 77DX, AT 4051, Josephson C42, etc. Just two days ago, I used an Audio Technica 4050 and it sounded terrific. That used to be my go-to mono acoustic mic.

Hope this helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[RoyMatthews]

Just to hijack the thread a bit I was curious about a stereo recording technique that I think I saw George Massenburg use in a video once.

Essentially, it was a pair of small diaphragm mics (maybe km184s or something similar) set up as an XY pair but turned 90? than you'd expect. So one mic would be pointing up and the other down. I didn't hear the result but it's kinda like recording a piano with the low strings panned left and the high strings panned right. I doubt there would be an extreme stereo spread. I'm curious as to how it would sound.

I haven't been recording in a while so I'd try it myself and was curious if anyone has tried it before.

[cgarges]

I used to do that a lot, actually. I get the impression that it was kind of a thing in Nashville for a while. I've seen it done with stereo mics, too, like the C24 or SM2. Oh, that's another great acoustic guitar mic, the SM2.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[drumsound]

Just to hijack the thread a bit I was curious about a stereo recording technique that I think I saw George Massenburg use in a video once.

Essentially, it was a pair of small diaphragm mics (maybe km184s or something similar) set up as an XY pair but turned 90? than you'd expect. So one mic would be pointing up and the other down. I didn't hear the result but it's kinda like recording a piano with the low strings panned left and the high strings panned right. I doubt there would be an extreme stereo spread. I'm curious as to how it would sound.

I haven't been recording in a while so I'd try it myself but and was curious if anyone has tried it before.

I'm gonna have to try that.

[Neal_Cappellino]

Great topic and responses. I don't think I've ever posted here before, but my 2 cents...

I've recently moved away from the standard Nashville "12th fret and body" stereo spread for a couple reasons. The first reason is phase coherency. Even when you adhere to the 3-to-1 rule you can still wind up with a smeared image or a hole in the middle, especially if the player is inconsistent in their positioning on the mics. The second is I don't always like how it collapses to a different panning in the mix.

I've used mono quite a bit and now more often favor a 3 mic setup. First part of that is an X-Y configuration with matched small diaphragm condensers about 12" in front of the guitar, pointing at the front edge of the sound hole where it meets the fretboard. (KM54s are my favorites, but expensive. Lots of others to choose from too: KM84s, AKG451s, Microtech Gefell UM70s, AT4051s.) The mic pointing towards the fretboard is on top and angled a few degrees up towards the bass strings, the bottom mic angled down towards the pick guard. This is a nice, phase coherent setup on it's own that can accommodate a variety of pan positions in mixing.

The second ingredient is a ribbon mic placed above the sound hole near the waist of the guitar at about chin height pointing down at the same distance (12") from the guitar as the X-Y. (It should be aiming at the same place as the X-Y pair.) As a figure-8 pattern the 90 degree off-axis is towards the players face for rejection from any noises. The ribbon I've used with the best results has been an sE Electronics VooDoo VR2 active ribbon. Try a Royer or similar. Again, lots of choices can give you good results. I prefer an active ribbon if you can. Placement is key to get optimal phase coherence with the X-Y pair. Also, play around with position to get the best tone/frequency response. A lot of low end comes out of the sound hole, so you may need to adjust how close or how much you're aiming directly at it.

The nice thing about this setup is it offers a lot of flexibility in tone and mixing. All together it's a big sound - a nice wide spread from the stereo pair with sparkle; a good, solid, warm center image from the ribbon. Blend as needed. Sometimes you favor the ribbon and sometimes you favor the stereo pair. Whatever it takes.

Hope that helps. Sorry for the ramble.

[Gregg Juke]

Neal-- No ramble; great info! Thank you for posting! Four years is a long time to lurk... Please feel free to share more awesome specific information like that any time. Thanks again and welcome.

GJ