Full Sail did it again!

[Family Hoof]

I just read this entire thread from the start and one thing no one has mentioned is this: for all those thousands of kids who are interested in entering our feild and live/grew up in the middle of nowhere where there are seemingly no recording studios, guitar centers, etc., for these people an audio degree presents an oppurtunity they could not otherwise have. Sure you can buy the gear and teach yourself. In fact, I think this is a necessary part of any audio education. However, with no one else to watch or show you you will never become your best.

Having had the great fortune of growing up in New York City and starting my studio apprenticeship at age 16, it took me a long time to develop the aforementioned perspective. However, all things considered I am completely against sound schools such as Full Sail, and I even tend to think that attending college for audio recording is a frivilous waste most of the time. I'm the son of two artists (the kind who use paint) so I can't help that sort of perspective. They taught me from the time I was old enough to comprehend "If you go to art school, you've got to get the teaching credits. Art is no way to make a living so you've got to have a backup plan." As much as we like to refer to ourselves as egnineers, this whole recording thing - it's an art.

And now to contradict myself once more... I've taken college courses in music, audio, and recording, and 90% of the time I would blame the students, not the school. You see, I'm defending the enemy here because they have to deal with so many idiots like the one discussed in the very start of this discussion. That kid probably had all the oppurtunities he needed at Full Shmuck but he didn't work for them and consequently got nothing out of it.

[PhillyBFunk]

Well, I have read this entire thread, and it has really coroberated my opinion of Full Sail. I was concidering going there, but all of the hype kind of scared me off. I know you have all in one way or another posted your opinions, but I have to ask again.

I tried going to a 4 year institution and denying myslef of my goal of hopefully some day being a producer. Well, long story short, I'm not doing the college thing anymore and I want to know the best route from here to achieve my goal. I am pretty shakey with gear, but when it comes to the ear, I got it. In your opinion what shold I do? What are the best schools? Thanks.

[spideyjack]

i have a degree in journalism.



spideyjack

[sonikbliss]

I work at Full Sail in the MIDI Lab. Its true what these students have said. Yes there are a lot of people there that don't put in the effort. But the ones that do get something out of it. There are success stories out of Full Sail. Its just the sheer amount of students they take in. Youre only going to get some many quality graduates and unfortunatly the bad ones outnumber the good. The teachers understand this and most of us try to give the ones we know are working hard our extra attention since they are the ones that will actually use it.

Jesse

I went to fullsail in 99 and got an internship immediately upon graduating. I have had the opportunity to work with many big label artists as well as many, many more smaller local artists and continue to to this day. All of this was made possible by the knowledge I gained from attending fullsail (and despite popular opinion there is much knowledge to be gained from from this program with a little effort on the students part). My point is the point that has been made many times already in this thread- you get what you put in. That being said I agree with what Jesse said in the quote that the sheer number of students passing through this school doesn't bode well for a high success rate. Maybe this could be remedied with some kind of an entrance exam required to take part in the program, maybe not. All I know is that fullsail has garnered a very bad reputation based on too many students who are unwilling to put some effort into what they are doing and it seems to detract from all of the people that graduate with a real passion for recording and go on to do great things. Sorry for the rant, but what fun is a one sided argument. By the way you are allowed to touch the gear at fullsail and you do get the oppotunity to record several bands.

[fifthstory]

i am another birck in the full sail wall. I went there after attending two years of regular college majoring in broadcast. when i started, the only thing i know was that i needed to record arm the track i wanted to record on using my cakewalk guitar tracks program, and i learned a ton at full sail.

that being said, i also attended full sail with a lot of the people you guys are talking about. people who go to "make beats" or don't really want to go to "college"

i put a lot of effort into school, and did my best to absorb everything they through my way. No i may not remember how to do recall on the SSL, but i know how the preamps sounds, and i know how to use a D8B. Not to muention i learned a ton about Pro Tools.

I don't recommend full sail for everyone, and i think there is a lot to be said for getting 30k worth of gear and using it and learning, but the school method worked great for me.

now all i need to do, is get some experience, because Lord knows you still don't anything until you've been recording in the real world for a while. thats why i love TAPE OP, and why i gave up reading those other magazines. you guys know what its all about.

peace and thanks,
Chris

[squizo]

recording school.....no


mule school ....yes

[Ronan]

The Recording School mess is one of the big reasons why I ended up starting a new recording school:
http://www.homerecordingbootcamp.com
Which is a short term school (taught by real pros) that covers only the shit you need to know to make better recordings. I had a few interns that recently grauated from LARW and they both said that in 10 months of education they had only one teacher that had ever really made records. They barely touched on things like micing technique and theory!!! My interns are really bright kids but they did not fully understand compressor theory. How can you spend $13,000 and 10 months and not understand compressors? After a couple weeks as my interns they grasped the concepts.

You can see it on the LARW web site. They have 80 hours of Sony Oxford training and 20 hours of mic theory! Also out of the 900 hours of study, 200 of that is internship. You pay thousands of dollars to work for some one. Ouch!!! Many of the big recording schools are factories churning out lots of future Wal-Mart employees.

[b3groover]

I read this whole thread and this is all I have to say:

i'm not sure why, but christopher cross's "she's like the wind" is playing in my head.

DUDE, that was Patrick Swayze, not CC!!!!!

[johnwy]

It's $30k now? Sweet Jesus!! Is that for the specialized associates degree or the Bachelor's? Does it at least include housing or is that still an a la carte item? It was $18.5k when I went in '91! We didn't have slo- I mean ProTools, we only had the Synclavier and Direct To Disk system and the tascam lab had just opened. I wonder what else has changed since then..

You can see it on the LARW web site. They have 80 hours of Sony Oxford training and 20 hours of mic theory! Also out of the 900 hours of study, 200 of that is internship. You pay thousands of dollars to work for some one. Ouch!!! Many of the big recording schools are factories churning out lots of future Wal-Mart employees.

Sad but true. A 1 month internship (25 hrs a week for 8 weeks) still will not guarantee a paid gig afterwards. It took me 5 months to be actually listed as an assistant engineer at the studio I interned at. Plus there were guys there 2 or 3 months ahead of me that were passed over ! (that went over well politically!) But you know what? Not everyone can handle being in this industry and I guess by churning out the amount of people that all of these schools do, it is only a way to ensure that the strong survive. Maybe the industry has to go back to a 2 year apprenticeship and have a background in electrical engineering. (probably never happen again!) I honestly feel these schools should be more of a 3 or 4 year college, and get more into electrical engineering, physics and math involved, including mic techniques and theory etc. etc. instead of squashing everything into 13 months or however long the school curriculum is.

But the fact of the matter is those big recording schools (universities and other learning institutions) are a business. They have a bottom line like everybody else, they still have to turn profit in order to survive. Eventhough I had a good experience, I unfortunately realized this about 7 months (shoulda realized it sooner!) into the program at Full Sail and made the best out of the situation.

[pvassil3]

You know it?s sad when people judge you based on others. I will attending full sail august 26 for a degree in recording arts then may be attending for my bachelors with entertainment business. I have done my research and have found a lot of bad reviews but on the flip side I have heard some great ones. I just received my list of students who will be attending school with me and it freaked me out to see how many people are going. Most of these people will be looking for an internship at the same time I will be. I feel that if you go into this school (just like any other) you need to not be influenced by others opinions and just focus on what you want to learn. if you are all telling me that I will go to full sail and not learn one thing or not touch one piece of equipment then I want my money back but last time I checked (when I went on the tour) they have beautiful studios with teachers that have a deep passion for music. I got in a conversation with the tour guide about the Beatles sergeant peppers lonely hart club at first glance of the 72 channel analog board. I would love to attend a school with other that share a passion like I do. you know it just freaks the shit outta me being 18 just graduated high school and moving across the country to attend a school that people who have not even gone to talk shit. i am glad i found this board and I will be a regular on it now. Please feel free to give anymore information you have on full sail (bad or good) i need to enter this school knowing as much as i can so i can benefit.

[sonikbliss]

pvassil3

I was in the same situation as you when I went to FullSail (18 just outta HighSchool). It can be a bit intimidating at times trying to learn all the gear. Make sure you really have a passion for recording and it's something you really want to do before committing to go to school. If you know you want to do it go to school and hit your books hard, don't get caught up in the year long drug binge that most of the students get caught up in and all of a sudden find themselves spit out of FullSail and they don't know what an XLR cable is. Don't expect to know everything inside and out when you graduate, alot of stuff you'll just kind of know the basics but it will all come together for you when you start interning and assisting at a real studio. Don't let the naysayers get you down because there's alot of people in this biz that do nothing but bitch all the time. Concentrate on learning the SSL (as you'll mostly see this console in major studios, not too many AMEK's around ) and most importantly learn ProTools inside and out (get certified, this is one of the most important things you'll NEED to know). Good luck and welcome to the board.

-Jason

[PhillyBFunk]

anyone know anything about SAE Nashville?

[indierecordist]

I also went to MTSU, graduated last summer. I probably wouldn't have gone to school if I'd only wanted "to become a recording engineer." I went to get a Bachelor's degree. I majored in Recording Industry because that was what I was most interested in.

The truth is, the industry is so saturated now with entry-level people, I'm glad to have a degree from a quality school. And if I end up in another career, I'm glad I am a college graduate.

I think MTSU is an excellent value for the money, and I was pretty lucky, I pretty much got every class I registered for.

[introvert]

I'm three months away from finishing at Full Sail, and threads like this make me worry. I read plenty of anti-FS material before I signed up, but after talking to a very successful grad in Dallas, and doing some research, I decided to go for it.

I've been here for nine months, and I've been busting my ass. I had several years' experience before I came here, but I've learned a lot. Mostly, it has come from spending time with instructors outside of class and getting them to walk through things with me. I've spent time in studios with some of my instructors outside of school. I've really pursued this.

I'm not entering the "traditional" recording industry career, I'm pursuing a future as a composer and sound designer for video games. However, it really concerns me to read threads like this. I feel it's ignorant to categorize an entire group of people based upon the school they attended.

Sure, 95% of the students in my graduating class are morons. But the ones that are good are DAMN good. They are smart, they know their stuff, and they are absolutely determined to do whatever is necessary to make a living in this field.

Don't disregard all Full Sail students. Don't refuse them an interview because of the school they went to. You may encounter some idiots, but there are some that I promise you will hear from again. I plan to be on that list.

-introvert

[Mark Alan Miller]

Introvert-
welcome to the forum, by the way!

Hey, I don't care if someone went to a recording school or not - if they have the chops, great, if they don't, not great - at least as far as going out and looking for work goes.
If they got the chops at a recording school that just tells me that they are motivated to learn, or naturally inclined...
How can anyone tell if someone has chops? By hearing their demo reel.
On a recent thread here regarding Resumes, I moaned my usual moan about resumes arriving, but without even a mention of a demo reel. Yikes!

Good luck in your career- you seem like you have the motivation! Keep us posted on how yr doin'!