Tascam 38 Reel to Reel Analog Recorder Opinions?

[evilaudio]

I tried searching for info on this particular tape machine, but I have not found much. There is a used Tascam 38 8-track 1/2" tape machine for sale from one of my co-workers. Would this be a worthy investment, or are they not good machines? I am new to analog recorders, but am very interested to utilize one in my studio. Would this be a reletively easy machine to keep maintained? I mix on a D8B with an HDR24/96 as my main recorder. I would just use the analog for drums, guitars, bass, etc... for "warmth/punch/good "tape" sound/etc..." and bring them back in as tracks to mix on the HDR/D8B. Or, would there be a way to sync it up so I can run 8 additional tracks? (Like I said, new to analog recording).

Also, could someone please recommend an information resourse for owning and operating tape machines like this? I know there's a lot that must be done to run them correctly.

Thanx!

[chetatkinsdiet]

OK....this is just my opinion, but here's the way I look at this sort of thing. Deep down, I'm probably an analog guy. I love the way old recordings sound, etc.....
But, in this instance, the Tascam 38 is probably the cheapest 8 track 1/2" deck you can buy....even new this was probably the case. So, in all reality, do you guys think that the lowest price analog 1/2" 8 track recorder...that's approaching 20 years old, is going to outperform a modern, decent digital recorder? I gotta say no....as much as I'd like to think that the Tascam would sound better, the answer is probably no.
That classic "tape sound" isn't so much the tape hiss and wow and flutter and all the stuff you'll get with this type of deck. "That" sound is the sound of expensive transformers, etc that you get with a really expensive deck like an Ampex 1200 or something of that nature. With a tape deck like that, you are definitely getting fat sounds, depth, etc.....
With the 38, you're probably just going to get mid-fi at best.
Again, it's a fun deck to own, and not too expensive to upkeep. Tape's sort of expensive and you'll want to have it serviced and by all means, get the MRL alignment tape that'll run you about $75. If you do all that....it's a fun deck to learn on. If you aren't planning on keeping it in top shape, then the quality is going to rival a decent cassette recorder.
Again, this pains me to have this opinion, but I believe this to be the case.
later,
m

[nestle]

As a proud 38 owner I beg to differ!!! I love this machine
OK, there are downsides like unbalanced inputs and sucky transport, forget the DBX.. but this is a very good sounding machine and a workhorse. My clients pay all the time for the tape thing for drums and guitar and this machine sounds fucking great when maintained. Its great to have the old school VU's and see the ol'tape reel turning, now your recording. simply watch your levels then dump to digital, it will do wonders for your sound and you begin to notice your mixes sound great.
for a second I thought of selling it a few years back but am sooooo glad I have it now-
Of course the otari or ampex is better , but what the fuck...this is the apex of affordable analog technology for the people, its snobby to turn your nose up at this machine, a cassette?? HA! I don't think so, thems fighting words...go for it!!!

[joeysimms]

I agree with some of what chetatkinsdiet said, but I wouldn't say a decent cassette deck will rival a 38, not even close.

[evilaudio]

Okay. How about a Tascam TSR8? Is that machine better or worse? Another co-worker has one of these. I've never seen it or know anything about it, but it's another option. Not sure how much $$$ he wants for it either.... Does it have the cool VU meters like the 38? What kind of inputs? It made me cringe to see RCA I/O jacks on the back of the 38...

Thanx!!

[nestle]

I think its the real cheepy 1/4 inch 8 track...with the LEDs?

[chetatkinsdiet]

What i meant to say...but probably didn't in the midst of my rambling post was that a 38 that was not aligned and not properly maintained wasn't going to beat a new cassette recorder. Maybe that's a stretch, but not by much. Again, if you're 38 is in great shape and aligned, etc, then you will definitely beat a cassette deck.
But, seriously, how many guys are going to purchase a Tascam 38 for $300 and then spend another $300-400 on everything needed to check them out and maintain their condition?
The main point I was trying to make is that I think some guys think that any analog recorder is going to be punchy and fat and give them this great sound that they can't possibly match with their digital recorders. This is true with some recorders obviously, but the same rules apply to analog recorders as do with digital setups. There are good ones and bad ones. Some sound great, some not so great.
later,
m

[nestle]

for the record, I think your right Chet, at one point I took the thing to the TEAC place and had a overhaul done I admit. Thats why it probably sounds so good. There are a lot of moving parts and rubber things that harden with time, the puck was replaced too. Also the reel table is finicky.
But if you keep it maintained I gotta stand up for this machine, its cool..but it might be a money pit too

[joeysimms]

I totally agree that a 1/2" deck may not be a first choice at all if your goal is tape warmth. Period. I would suggest a 1" 8 track for that kind of thing. but as far as mainaining a 38, I have a 48 and find that since it IS a narrow format deck, it holds it's alignment fairly well. it's not an old ampex that needs to be aligned evry session. Some will argue you should anyway, but i have noticed any problems with my 48, and i've been beating it with tracks for over 2 years.

[Wild Bill]

Nestle,
The TSR-* is a 1/2 " machine. I have one and it is a very nice machine indeed. I started tape recording with a 1/4" Roberts mono back in the 60's and the TSR-8 ranks up there with tape handling and sound quality of the best machines I've used through the years, including Studers. The deceiving thing is that the tape transport is microprocessor handled, so it looks deceivingly simple and cheap. I rather think of it as elegant. The microprocessor handles the tape tension ratio between the supply and takeup reels so that proper tension (and constant tape speed) is applied across the entire length of the reels. Prior to this, double capstans were required to maintain this consistancy. The TSR is also SEMPTE compatible and therefore frame accurate. An adapter allowed me to sync my DAW and the TRS so that I control it from within my recording app. It's an etremely good catch as long as it's not beeen abused.

Running them in a horizontal rather than vertical orientation (the way TASCAM designed it) will keep hub wear to a minimum.

It does have LED recording meters, but I think you're confusing it with one of the Fostex 1/4 plastic cheapies.

Later, bud.

[moschops]

I have a 48 and I love the thing. I was lucky and got it for $250 with very low miles. It's a little different from a 38 (XLR ins & outs and a different transport, I believe). I moved to this after using a Tascam 464 cassette deck and the difference in sound has been a vast improvement. I also use a Layla 24/96 & laptop for remote recordings, but I much prefer using the 48. I record alot of live situations where I am both engineer and musician, thus I like to 'set it and forget it' and the 48 is very forgiving on levels and sounds nice when you hit it hard. I find the main drawback with this machine is it's colossal weight (I threw my back out getting it up a flight of stairs), so if you plan on taking it places I wouldn't recommend one of these as they are bloody murder to move. I also agree that these decks need to be run horizontally.

[wowandflutter]

As a recorder the 38 does sound pretty cool.
But as a machine it is pretty cheaply made.
That said as clunky as the machine is ive never had any
major transport problems with mine (yet). But my fingers are always crossed
every time i use it.
Just another opinion.

[fireproof]

both the 38 and TSR8 will give you some good 15ips analog sound.
the TSR has a better transport and replaced the 38 so it will be a slightly newer deck.
If it were me I would get the TSR8 as they were built a bit sturdier and the transport is smoother

drums,vocals and gtrs will sound better then the cheap digital stuff out there

Adam

[evilaudio]

Very good advise/answers! Here are a few more questions if anyone has time:

What's the dbx option do exactly? I assume it's NR or some sort of dynamics?
Are there any 1" 8-track machines that are this affordable? Any recommendations for going that route? I wouldn't mind spending 600 - 900 bucks or so if it's gonna be a good sounding investment. The convenient thing is, both these machines I've asked about are locally available, I wouldn't have to worry about shipping it, know the owners, etc...
Also, the one guy that's selling the TSR8 also has an older Hill mixer (VU meter
bridge) that he says is perfect for this 8 track recorder, it has 16 mono channels, 8 sub-groups and 8 tape returns all on their own separate faders. Anyone know anything about this mixer? Like I said, I have yet to actually see this stuff, so I'd like some opinions before I actually go look and try to make a deal w/him. He'd also throw in extra reels, service manauls, cleaning supplies, snake cables, a rolling rack, extra goodies, etc...

Thanx!

[chetatkinsdiet]

If you're nearing that $1000 mark, you might be able to find something that's at least more of a pro-type machine. Something in the range of an otari, etc. 1" 8 machines are going to be more like $2000-3000, but will be "the" sound you're after. But, in that range, you might as well not limit yourself to 8 tracks and look for a decent 16. If you're just starting out, these machines might be too much to handle, as the upkeep and tape will be pretty pricey. But, if you were to find a deal on a nice otari or other 8 track, you could start learning on it and keep your eyes peeled for an upgrade. When one comes up, you're ready to jump on it.
I'd suggest browsing some of the various sites like www.blevinsaudio.com and maybe a few others for decks they have in stock. Who knows...occassionally someone will post on tapeop.com or the rap group that they have a recorder for dirt cheap if you come get it. Even if it's across country, you might be able to rent a van or something and go get one. Usually these types are in NY or LA or some other recording hotbed.
As for the Hill's.....I don't know first hand, but have heard mixed reports on them.
later,
m