newbie with mic overheads question..

[Bony Thompson]

hi there, i'm new here and i've got a question about overheads.

my band has been recording in our rehersal space live to 4 track and we're moving up to a tascam 388. we have two overheads in the room that sound GREAT stereo to tape-- except when it comes to the cymbals. the mics are sm48's and they hang about 5 feet apart (that's a guess) in the middle of the room about 9 or 10 feet off the floor, we set up in a triangle around them with the mics almost over each guitar amp and the drummer facing them both. something like this (where the small dots are the mics):
0
. .
0 0

anyway, the mix is damn near perfect but on rare occaision the cymbals are OUT OF CONTROL UGLY sounding in there. i'm wondering if there are good mics for overheads that will "ignore" or just sort of soften heavy cymbal action. this setup sounds unbelievable most times, and we've used them as the core of our recordings with great results so i don't really feel like disturbing their placement. a rough estimate of room dimensions puts it at about 15'Lx17'Wx16'H. cheap and common mike suggestions are good cuz i have limited funds and lots of friends with standard mics.

thanks for any help

[Bony Thompson]

oops it took out my spaces in that diagram. here it is again, x's are mics:

............................
......drummer..........
............................
......X..........X.........
gtr..................gtr...
.............................

[Flight Feathers]

from your room dimensions, it sounds like the wall might be the problem. i am assuming they are flat and parallel, correct? bad room reflections make cymbals go crazy. try clapping your hands or clicking 2 drumsticks together around the room and see if you hear any wierd echos. if you do try putting some blankets and carpets around the walls and floor.

another obvious solution is to ask your drummer to hit the cymbals softer. or use darker cymbals, or maybe try putting some tape on them.

ayan

[I'm Painting Again]

how close are your mics to the ceiling? i mic some drums in a concrete hall with a low ceiling and solved the same problem by putting a baffle between the mics and the Ceiling, those reflectons being the main culprits..

[Bony Thompson]

the mics are probably 6-7 feet from the ceiling. like i said, the cymbal sound is only bad when the drummer goes nuts, otherwise it's fine. i was mainly wondering if better mics might be able to deal with the whole drum sound better. i'll try some baffles maybe and check the other suggestions. thanks and any more thoughts are welcome!

[I'm Painting Again]

sorry, i did not realize you had a distance listed. thats a pretty good distance from the ceiling, mine are much closer..maybe aim the mics a little different as well..

[Randall]

get a new drummer

[Bony Thompson]

Randall i know what you're talkin about. sometimes sloppy but he sure does have some good rock chops and you can't beat his aesthetic. plus he's a cool dude.

[Bony Thompson]

otherwise he'd be outta there.

[cgarges]

Try speading the mics a bit farther apart. You could also put some sort of high-frequency absoption below and/or above the mics. Like carpet on the floor and a parachute on the ceiling. You don't HAVE to do the whole room, but you might notice a difference just above and below the mics. I know this sounds a little nutty, too, but you can get a really big outdoor table umbrella (preferable fabric, not plastic) and put it over the drum kit. This will cut down a bit on the cymbal splash in the room. Good luck!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[mikedaul]

maybe when the drummer goes crazy you are overloading the mics? You could try using a -10db pad to see if that helps for the more intense parts...

[Slider]

are you recording the drums and guitars with the same two mics?
is it just a stereo recording of the drums and guitars?
or are there also close mics involved?
if not you might want to consider close micing the kick, then using
your two dynamic shure mics in a glyn johns stereo drum setup
which is... a mic facing straight down at the snare from above
and one looking at the snare from over the floor tom ( right behind the floor tom looking right at the snare. measure from the middle of the snare.
and get these mics close to the same distance from the middle of the snare top head. then pan these two mics hard left, right with kick in center.
then mic your amps with separate mics. run bass direct or mic it as well.
this will give you a great stereo drum recording. i learned this drum mic technique from famed mixer/engineer jack joseph puig. who learned it from
glyn johns (led zep, beatles, stones. it sounds amazing. and it works with cheaper mics.

[cgarges]

i learned this drum mic technique from famed mixer/engineer jack joseph puig. who learned it from
glyn johns (led zep, beatles, stones. it sounds amazing. and it works with cheaper mics.

When did you work for Jack? A buddy of mine used to work for him at Ocean Way.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[tintern]

try putting a large (6x8 or so) piece of carpet insulation (or whatever you have that is sound absorbant) right behind the drummer. i found that worked wonders in our practice space, and is especially important if the drummer plays with his back to a wall.

-j.

[Bony Thompson]

old thread but i wanted to say thanks. you all are the best! lots of cool ideas/replies. i did some stuff last week-end and i'm getting a bit more control using some of the suggestions.

i appreciate the responses.