funk bass guitar recording... that nasty clip...

[damian]

Hi there. I love this board. If I am posting too many questions... please send me a nasty little note telling me to shut the hell up... But, there are so many recording problems.. and I am just now getting through all of them....

Bass problem: The problem I am seeing is that I get this huge spike when I touch the strings or get a little fret slap going. So, I am new to recording, but been playing bass for about 8 years now. For my bands album, I am doing the recording myself and getting horrible results. I play a very funky fast lotsa popin' strummin' and slappin' kinda bass. Bass can't possibly be this hard to record. It is possible that my technique is really sloppy and sucks... I am playing a musicman Stingray bass into an Eden head. I have tried a bunch of different mic and mic placements. I have tried running direct. The funny thing is that the compressors don't seem to think that the spike is enough (or the compressor isn't fast enough to catch it) to squash it down. Could my pickups be to hot? Should I use an old battery instead of the new battery?

Even if I really watch my technique (which limits how much emotion I can put into the track) that I clip anyway somewhere along the track. I record digitally, and you know how horrible it sounds when you get that nasty clip. What is a thumper to do? I have to image there is someone on here that has recorded a funky bass player that has seen this same problem...

[takeout]

The funny thing is that the compressors don't seem to think that the spike is enough (or the compressor isn't fast enough to catch it) to squash it down.

If the compressor doesn't think it's enough, tweak the Threshhold until it does; this knob sets the level at which the compressor decides "I've had enough". The Attack knob controls how quick it kicks in. Ratio determines how much it is squashed by.

[damian]

I did try that... I went down to -25db and there was still this pop coming through..

[andrew embassy]

what compressor are you using? The envelope might not be fast enough?

[cgarges]

Hi there. I love this board. If I am posting too many questions... please send me a nasty little note telling me to shut the hell up...

Yeah, you're getting close to your limit on the number of posts. JK. Don't sweat it man, that's what this place is for. And still probably the best place to get a number of helpful responses.

The problem I am seeing is that I get this huge spike when I touch the strings or get a little fret slap going.

When you say "when I touch the strings" do you mean that literally or just when you're playing aggressively?

What does your signal path look like? I assume you're just using a mic, right? What does the bare mic signal look like? You could be overloading the mic, mic pre, or input stage of the compressor. Do any of these sound like a possibility? What mic and mic position have you liked the general tone of so far and what else is in your signal chain? Also, what type of compressor are you using? If I get these specifics, I may be able to help a bit more.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[takeout]

I did try that... I went down to -25db and there was still this pop coming through..

All of those controls work together; you can't just grab one, twist it, and expect it to fix the problem.

Think your way through it: Thresh sets where it kicks in, but not how fast (Attack) or how much (Ratio) it kicks in. You might have it kicking in at the right threshhold, but it might be kicking in too slowly, or not strongly enough.

Also, I agree about describing your complete signal path to us; should've thought to ask that myself.

[tiger vomitt]

try using a limiter instead of a compressor. you can turn a compressor into a limiter sometimes, but try one in your software called a limiter and see if it works. what are you using (recorder-wise) anyway?

it might be as simple as using a lower signal going to disk. if you're recording at 24 bit you dont have to worry about gett a peak at -.01 dB every single time. experiment when you're checking levels, try setting it so that your peaks are no louder than -8dB and see what happens. you might have some luck like that funky bass person.

and no youre not asking too many question, although i feel like that on other forums sometimes too.


peace

evan

[damian]

what compressor are you using? The envelope might not be fast enough?

I have tried a couple -- I have a focusrite penta, RNC, Octopre. I have tried both the Penta and the RNC on their fastest setting respecitively.

When you say "when I touch the strings" do you mean that literally or just when you're playing aggressively?

It is strange... if there is a string ringing out, the spike is less... but if I just put a light touch of my fingers to the string... huge spike. I touch the string lightly instead of slapping sometimes to accentuate the snare hits.. but with this high end spike it sound like a click track is playing along with the snare. It is as if every single time I hit the string, I touch the string to the pick-up...

What does your signal path look like?

Well... I am doing digital recording on a G4. My interface device is a Motu 828. After this, I have varied the signal path to try and correct the problem. I use either an OctoPre, Penta, or BlueTube MicPre... And one of those as a compressor. [and I have tried all three] I have recored into a variety of Mics all with the same result... and recorded direct to the Motu through the DI. It seems to me that the signal must be coming from the bass. Could the string hitting the fret cause this much chaos? It doesnt seem to be every time the string hits the fret... just when there isn't some other noise coming out of the bass.

What does the bare mic signal look like?

The wafeform looks like your standard bass waveform... but the inital few milliseconds of the signal are 3 times as high! Using the compressor you can see that it registers the bass waveform and squashes that, but it doesn't catch the high end spike. Too quick? The waveform looks like I hit the phantom power button on my micpre in the middle of recording. YOu have the normal signal there.. but this huge spike beforehand.

The limiter is a good idea. I tried to set my RNC up to function as a limiter... but it didn't work.

[thunderboy]

Wait. Are you hearing this "spike" at the source (your bass amp)? Or just at playback?

jt

[damian]

Yes. You can hear the spike. But, it doesn't sound any different than the normal sound of a bass player touching the string to the fret. It is just that sometime even though the fret click doesn't sound more than normal... the spike created is... and that causes the track to clip and destort.

[cgarges]

This is staring to sound more like some sort of issue besides simple peak reduction. If you're lightly touching your strings and getting this, I don't think it's something a compressor will fix. I'm not a computer recording guy at all, but there could be some sort of issue there. Take the output of your compressor (or even just the mic pre) and run it to some other source--a cassette deck, a mini-disc, anything. See if the problem still occurs.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[takeout]

What kind of bass is it, and has someone monkeyed around with the electronics recently? This is starting to sound like a grounding problem with the bass.

[justinf]

I would say that the problem is definitely pre-computer. In this order, I would check: a)bass electronics, b)exterior factors, c)amp. There are guys here way more qualified than I am in elec troubleshotting, but that does not sound like a computer problem.

[Lazy_Q]

Alright, I'm not an expert on recording slap bass, but for what it's worth it's time to take a step back.

My reccomendation? borrow another bass and another amp. Then figure out if one of the following could possibly be fouling up the works

1) Is the bass screwed up? - change basses, and give it a shot. you're problem is so weird that I'm not ruling out the bass needing electronic repair. Another thing that might help is turning down the output volume on the bass to the amp/DI as it sometimes helps tighten the sound.
2) Is the amp screwed up? changing basses doesn't help? then try a different amp. You said you ran it direct and encountered the same problem, so it's not bloody likely.
3) Is your signal chain from there screwed up? find something that doesn't make the spike and try it through the bass mic to test. if you get "the spike" then you have bigger problems: bad mic cables, cables to the compressor, or even a blown jack on the 828. Rule Nothing Out.

Also, occured to me, you could just turn the gain down into the 828 and forgoe the compressor. just make sure the max level of the mic/DI doesn't clip the input and go. You'll be limited to software compression (or reamping and re-syncing) and lose some noise floor in the process, but darnit, it might just be better than the alternative if everything is so screwed up otherwise.

Good luck

[mikebuzz]

Are your strings hitting your pickups ?????????????????????????????????????????? this will cause this problem in a big way , or you have overcopressed the bass so much at the amp that it's breathing hard ( less likely

Later
Buzz